§ 2.35 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that the appointment of staff at London County Council remand homes is carried out with due care and efficiency.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD DERWENT)My Lords, the appointment of staff at the two remand homes run by the London County Council is the responsibility of the Council. The information before my right honourable friend does not suggest that this function is discharged without due care and efficiency.
§ VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARDMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer, but is he aware that there has been a very disturbing case recently? There is at the moment a housemaster employed by the L.C.C. in gaol for gross indecency to a boy at a remand home, and when the boy's father complained to the Home Office, the Home Office told him that there were no grounds for considering him unsuitable for employment at an L.C.C. home. The same man had had live previous convictions before being employed by the L.C.C., two of them for gross indecency.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, the Home Office did not say that in the letter to which my noble friend refers. What they said was that at the time there was no reason to suppose that there was anything 470 against the man. This was a very unusual and regrettable case; according to my information there was an unusual combination of factors, including the use of a false name in the application, the forging of a reference, and a grossly misleading statement by a referee.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, may I respectfully agree with what the Minister of State has said? We all regret this circumstance, as we are bound to do. There was no offence against a boy in the remand home itself. Apart from that, and in addition to what the Minister of State has said, is he aware that one of the referees was a priest whom the Council consulted? He knew the man, and he gave the impression that he was satisfactory, which, on the information before me at the moment, he should not have said. The Council takes a lot of care in these appointments, for which it is difficult to find suitable applicants. In any case, the man is out of it now, and I am sure everybody will have learned a lesson. The matter was subsequently considered by juvenile court people and a Home Office representative, and they agreed with the conclusions of the Council. It would be a pity to exploit this situation too much against an authority which takes a lot of trouble in its appointments.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, I would bear out what the noble Lord has said, that there was no offence committed against any boy in the home. This is a matter for the London County Council, but they have shown us the trouble they take to try to get the right people, and there is no system which might not go wrong on some occasion. This was an extremely rare occurrence, and I quite agree with the noble Lord that the London County Council take every possible care they can to see that the right people are employed.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, the noble Lord has referred to a forged reference. Surely the falsity of the document would be discovered when the official or the Committee referred to the supposed signatory of the reference; surely that would be the case. Or do the Committee or Council accept references without verification?
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, I do not think I can go into the matter of the actual reference which does not concern the Home Office in any way. In this case, the reference was forged. The London County Council wrote to the man who was supposed to be giving the reference and got a satisfactory reference back. In fact, the answer was forged. This case slipped through. The man was employed for only a short time before it came to light, when he was first of all suspended, and then dismissed. I do not think I can go any further than that.