§ 3.10 p.m.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state, at the latest convenient date, the number of prisoners who are sleeping more than three to a communal cell; the approximate size of such cells, and any other way in which they differ from the ordinary prison cell.]
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, the expression "cell" is commonly used to mean a room in which not more than three can sleep, and is so used in the statement of accommodation in Appendix 4 of the Commissioners' Annual Report. The statement on page 110 of the Report for 1961 shows that there was accommodation for 2,358 prisoners in rooms or dormitories in men's prisons, by which is meant rooms 854 or dormitories larger than cells and capable of sleeping four or more. This includes accommodation for 1,110 in closed prisons for men. There are also over 3,000 prisoners in open prisons, most of whom sleep three or more in dormitories. The size and characteristics of such rooms or dormitories vary so widely that no general answer can be given to the second part of the Question; the noble Lord has, however, sent me a statement alleging that a certain prisoner was located in a room with four others at Wormwood Scrubs, and if the room can be identified I will send him particulars of it.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the particular room referred to has now been identified by me in respect of two different prisoners, including the one to which he has now referred. But the generality of prisoners in Wormwood Scrubs refer to this as the "snake-pit", including epileptics, with everybody throwing fits—perhaps six in a week—in truly frightful conditions in the strip-cells, which are short of water so that they drink water from their chamber pots. Will he investigate these truly horrible conditions under which these men, who are sufferers—they may or may not be criminals but they are sufferers—are herded without, apparently, proper medical care, or hope of succour.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I must say that I am a little surprised by the noble Lord's supplementary, because the allegations which he has repeated are all included in the letter which I have just said I should be glad to examine.