§ 3.6 p.m.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government, whether the departmental committee examining the practicability of a Channel Tunnel or Channel Bridge, 250 has yet completed its investigations and reported to the Government; what delay they expect will arise between the receipt of the report and the announcement of Government policy; and whether, in view of the fact that whether or not Great Britain enters the Common Market it is of vital importance to provide better facilities for the transport of goods, vehicles and passengers between Great Britain and Europe, they will ensure that the earliest possible decision is given.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)My Lords, the joint Anglo-French official study is not yet complete but it is making good progress. Until my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport has the official findings no forecast can be made of how long Governments will take to consider them. Decisions must await consultation with the French Government, but I can assure the noble Lord that my right honourable friend is very conscious of the importance of reaching an early decision.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for the full reply he has given. I wonder whether he could give me any idea at all as to when he will be in a position to state more definitely than he has done now when the report will be available?
§ LORD CHESHAMNo: cannot help the noble Lord in that regard. I can simply say again that meetings of officials are continuing. I understand that the latest meeting between the chairmen of the two sides was on January 11. The noble Lord knows that the issues in this matter are far-reaching and complex, but I repeat that as soon as there is some news to give the House it shall be given.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, would the noble Lord tell us whether, if the Channel Tunnel is built to link this country with Europe, the French will then regard this country as part of Europe?
§ LORD CHESHAMThe brief I was reading this morning said that any such questions should be referred to the Foreign Secretary. It seemed to me unfair, even to him.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord two questions? In the first place, are the Government aware of the increasing support which the Bridge is enjoying in important industrial circles in this country? The second question is: do the Government agree that it would be better not to arrive at any final decision in regard to either a Bridge or a Tunnel until we have had the benefit of the freely expressed opinion of both Houses of Parliament?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, if the noble Lord will remain content with the same answers that I gave him to the same questions on the last occasion on which he asked them, which was not long ago, I think that I can save myself some time.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, might it not also save the Committee time if the Government found out whether President de Gaulle is going to torpedo its conclusions as he has done the Common Market ones?
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, how does one torpedo a tunnel?
§ LORD OGMOREIs it not important to find out what General de Gaulle's intentions are before we go much further?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, most important; and I would refer the noble Lord to my last answer but one.
§ LORD OGMOREMay I say that in this House questions are asked of the Government and not of specific Ministers?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, yes, but they also ought not to go much wider than the original Question.
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, might I ask my noble friend whether the practicability of a Bridge is being studied just as assiduously as the practicability of a Tunnel?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, my information is that the Joint Study Group are examining all aspects of the propositions that have been put forward.
§ LORD AILWYNMy Lords, with regard to what is, to me, the preposterous 252 scheme for building a Channel bridge, quite apart from the extra expense involved over that of a tunnel, would my noble friend not agree that anyone who could seriously contemplate deliberately planting a hazard of this nature in the middle of one of the busiest and most important waterways in the world should have his mental equipment minutely examined?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, if anyone is of the same view as my noble friend that may well be so; but I doubt whether in fact that particular aspect, all-embracing as it is on the subject, comes within the purview of the appointed committee.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, are the Government aware that what the noble Lord, Lord Ailwyn, has just said about the nonsensical project for a bridge is not a view shared by important interests in France and by highly qualified French engineers, and, indeed, even by shipping interests on the Continent of Europe, whatever may be thought about it here by people who have never studied the question at all?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, as I have said before, there are many shades of opinion on this matter; pro, con and purely "Don't know." I think it would be true to say that the majority of them have been fairly freely offered to the Government.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, before writing of what the noble Lord, Lord Ailwyn, said, might it not be worthwhile to consult the Admiralty, before proceeding?
§ LORD GLADWYNI have.