HL Deb 14 November 1962 vol 244 cc601-3

2.36 p.m.

VISCOUNT GAGE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they still intend to introduce legislation relating to Common Land, as forecast in statements made by them in December, 1959, June, 1960 and November, 1961: and whether they are aware that continued uncertainty as to their intentions in this matter is leading to difficulties in certain cases.]

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (LORD ST. OSWALD)

My Lords, I regret that so far it has not been possible to introduce legislation on the lines indicated by my right honourable friend on November 6, 1961, but it remains the intention to do so as soon as Parliamentary time permits. I hope that this will remove any uncertainty as to the Government's intention, but I am aware that problems will remain in the meantime.

VISCOUNT GAGE

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for the courteous terms in which the reply was given, perhaps I might ask a question arising from it. Since the Royal Commission was set up no less than seven years ago, does he not think that any definite information, even though it may be negative, would be preferable to this policy of "jam to-morrow", which has been going on for the last four years? In other words, if my noble friend really means that there is no likelihood of something being done before, say, the next General Election, would it not be better to say so?

LORD ST. OSWALD

No, my Lords; I could not possibly give that negative information. To begin with, I do not know when the next General Election is to be; and further, it has not been decided in any way at all how soon or how late Parliamentary time will be found for this legislation.

THE MARQUESS OF WILLINGDON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Dartmoor Commons are disastrously overstocked, the grazing never rested and fertilisation rarely carried out? Could not the commoners rest the moor from January to March, and then use the commonland, as was done in the past, to graze only the number of stock which they can raise on their own pastures in the winter?

LORD ST. OSWALD

If I am to reply literally to my noble friend, what I can tell him is this. I have heard such reports, but I have had no official confirmation and I am making inquiries. In reply to his second question, certainly the commoners could do exactly what my noble friend thinks they should do, but no Government can oblige them to do so.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, arising out of the wording of the Question and in view of the difficulties of interpreting this monumental work which the Royal Commission have produced, would the noble Lord consider making known from which quarter, if any, some information would more easily be obtained on the many difficulties covered by the Question with regard to the interpretation of matters arising from this law of commons, including the difficulty of procedure for setting up manorial courts and the appointment of the officers therefor?

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, I do not know how I can help my noble friend at this juncture. As he knows, my right honourable friend has already forecast legislation on the first of the recommendations of the Commission; that is to say, the registration of commons and rights. We think that this is the first stage to be undertaken, and the chief cause at the moment of the uncertainty described by my noble friend who asked the original Question. If my noble friend Lord Barnby has any questions on the interpretation of the Report, which is what I understand is disturbing him, and he will communicate them to me, I will do my best to pass them on to quarters where they can be interpreted. But I am not certain that any interpretation of the Report exists at the moment other than is contained in the terms of the Report itself.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, while I thank the noble Lord for his reply, and recognise that he says the delay must inevitably occur, may I ask whether, in giving thought to this matter, he can bear in mind the problems which have been developed by the massively increasing registrations of automobiles and the reaction of these on commoners' rights and the manorial rights? There appears to be difficulty in finding what authorities would be or should be applied to and what interpretation should be given.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, I think those matters must rest until legislation is framed.

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