§ 3.10 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can confirm the accuracy of Press reports of loans, granted by the U.S. Agency for International Development, for a period of 40 years without interest, to be used by the recipient for purchases of U.S. manufactured products; and, if so, whether such practice is in effect a direct subvention to export.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, I understand that the new United States Agency for 1213 International Development has recently made a loan on these terms to Brazil to finance essential imports from the United States. Although this is a tied loan, its terms are clearly designed primarily to assist the recipient country.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether, when he is considering this matter, he will bear in mind that for the last few years American firms have been offering to prospective customers in underdeveloped countries such attractive terms as often to make it impossible for British firms previously established there to offer competition? That arises directly out of this Question and the Answer.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am sure that the Government Departments concerned will bear those considerations in mind.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, could the noble Earl answer the point in the Question, which asks,
whether such practice is in effect a direct subvention to export"?That is the point of the Question. Will the noble Earl answer that?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I hope the noble Lord will not think me elusive if I answer in this way. There clearly is, and there has long been, a difficulty in defining a dividing line between aid designed to help underdeveloped countries and export promotion designed primarily to help the capital-exporting country. That has been a long-standing problem, but it is quite clear in the mind of Her Majesty's Government that this particular loan falls clearly on the side of aid.
§ LORD STONHAMBut it also presupposes that the country is going to 1214 remain underdeveloped for as long as 40 years. The question of the length of the term must come into this; and, surely, when we come to discuss these things with the Board of Trade this point of subvention is extremely important to our own manufacturers.
§ LORD GRANTCHESTERMy Lords, may I ask whether it is a good principle to encourage a dictator in a country to be able to pretend to his people that he can borrow money free of interest for 40 years?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I think that that particular question goes far wider than the terms of the original one.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, would the noble Earl tell us when this agency was set up, because the last I heard of it was when a Bill to set it up was going through Congress? Could he tell us whether it has been set up and is in existence?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, it has been set up recently. I am afraid that I do not know the precise date, but it is, of course, designed to replace the International Co-operation Administration and the Development Loan Fund, which have now gone out of existence.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGHMy Lords, might I ask whether any of the points which have been mentioned by noble Lords were in fact discussed between authorities here and authorities in Washington?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, this whole problem of what constitutes aid has been, and is being, discussed between Washington and this country. I am afraid I am not aware of what precise discussions have gone on in relation to this particular loan, and of that question I think I should like notice.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGHMy Lords, is it too much to ask the noble Earl, who is always very obliging, whether he could get some information about that and communicate it to the questioner, and perhaps to the House?