THE COMMON MARKET AND AGRICULTURE (Hansard, 13 June 1961)

§ LORD WILLIAMS OF BARNBURGH
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL WALDEGRAVE)
My Lords, if the United Kingdom were to join the Common Market, it must be assumed that we should be required to move gradually from the present system of guaranteed prices and Exchequer deficiency payments to the Common Market system, under which prices to the farmers will be maintained by the common tariff, variable import levies, and internal measures for the support of market prices. The present system of production grants and subsidies would not necessarily be materially affected. It is impossible to estimate the effect which these changes might have on farm incomes, but the noble Lord will be aware that one of the objectives of the common agricultural policy of the Six, as set out in the Treaty of Rome, Article 39, is: To ensure a fair standard of living for the agricultural population, particularly by increasing the individual earnings of persons engaged in agriculture. It is equally impossible to make a firm estimate of the likely effect on food prices, since the eventual level of prices in the Common Market cannot be forecast. The working out of the common agricultural policy will be a gradual process of development and, if the United Kingdom were to join, that in itself would affect the development of policy.

§ LORD WILLIAMS OF BARNBURGH
My Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for the Answer that he has given, may I ask whether, if there have to be changes from our present agricultural position, it would not be far better, instead of leaving figures and estimates to outsiders, individuals and bodies, if Her Majesty's Government made their own estimates, so that people engaged in agriculture in particular would be able to get a fair understanding of what the future holds out for them?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I do not think any good purpose can be served by making public guesses about this hypothetical situation. We do not know yet what the Common Market policy is, and, of course, no decision has yet been made even to open negotiations for our joining the Common Market.

§ LORD WILLIAMS OF BARNBURGH
My Lords, while I agree with the noble Earl that there ought to be less guesswork than there has been over the past weeks and months, if there has to be a guess, ought it not to be an estimate made by Her Majesty's Government, and not outsiders?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I do not think that this question of competition in guesswork is a very profitable subject to pursue. A large number of assumptions have to be made. While we do not in any way detract from the valuable work that various economists and organisations have done in trying to make assessments based on various assumptions, it is not for the Government at this stage to comment on those assumptions.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, may we take it from the Minister's statement that the estimate which has been so widely circulated on behalf of P.E.P., that food prices would not rise more than 1½ per cent. over a given number of years is not trustworthy at all, and that they are trying to estimate on what is at present quite an incalculable basis?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, the noble Viscount and others will make their own judgment as to how much they should follow private estimates that have been given. We do not for a moment deny that the price of food would go up to some extent under this system. The process would be gradual, and we should not expect the increase to be substantial.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, whilst it is likely on such a matter that there will be all kinds of opinions in all kinds of places—industry, Parties and so on—is the noble Earl not aware that there has been an extraordinary increase in the number of farms put on the market for sale because of the present uncertainty in the minds of the industry?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
I am not aware of that fact.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
It is in the papers. The noble Earl ought to study the agricultural papers.

EARL WALDEGRAVE
I study the agricultural papers as much as the next man, but I am not aware that there have been a large number of farms put upon the market because of anxiety about the Common Market.

§ LORD WILMOT OF SELMESTON
My Lords, does not the Minister appreciate that there is a great deal of anxiety about the effects, or possible effects, of this momentous decision which the Government have to take, and that the Government, in pursuit of their inquiries into this policy, must be making estimates of the effects of this step upon various industries and upon agriculture? Cannot the results of those inquiries be made public?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
No, my Lords. I would refer to the very careful and full statement made by my right honourable friend in another place only yesterday, in which these matters were fully gone into. Questions of agricultural estimates and agricultural prices are not the only matters that have to be taken into consideration, and I think my right honourable friend said that it was broad political and economic matters that would be the deciding factors.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, would the noble Earl agree, as I suggested to him some months ago, that British farmers would not necessarily be worse off if we switched to tariffs and import levies on food as a means of price support? Could he further say if it is the Government's intention, in the event of any change, to try to ensure so far as possible that farmers are not worse off than they are now?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, to answer the second part of the question first, the objective of a thriving agriculture in this country is (as my right honourable friend mentioned yesterday) sacrosanct—I think that was the word he used. That is our agreed objective. I will not venture to suggest to-day whether, in my personal opinion—which is of little value to your Lordships—one system or another would be likely to make us better off.