§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether information is available as to the number of motor accidents attributed to the diversity of levels and types of lights carried on different vehicles, and of light signals in different parts of the country; and whether consideration has been given to requiring more uniformity with regard to all of these.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)My Lords, the answer to the first part of the Question is, No. The police reports, which are the source of our information on road accidents, do not attempt to indicate the cause or causes of each accident. The answer to the second part of the Question is that lights on vehicles have to be fitted within positional limits which are defined as closely as possible, to ensure that they give a proper and visible indication of their function, which may be, for example, to indicate the width of the vehicle, the direction in which it is travelling, or whether the driver intends to turn or to stop. Bearing in mind the widely varying sizes and shapes of different types of vehicle, it would not be reasonable to define these positional limits any more closely.
The type of light is determined partly by regulation and partly by arrange- 704 ments between manufacturers, and we are moving in the direction which the noble Lord advocates. For instance, we are about to circulate for comment a proposal to require all bicycles to carry the rear lamps marked with a British Standard number which are now obligatory only on those bicycles manufactured after the 1st April, 1959, and also revised requirements for direction indicators. Maximum and minimum lights for traffic light signals are prescribed in regulations. The permitted differences in height are fairly wide to allow for obstruction of view by gradient or other causes. But normally traffic lights are erected at the minimum height allowed.
§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that comprehensive Answer, but may I ask him to go on a very busy road late at night and see the difficulty with all these lights? I am sure he would agree it would be well worth while to send out regulations to various local authorities to try to make lights a little more uniform than they are to-day.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I am not sure I understand my noble friend correctly. Is he referring to actual traffic lights or other lights such as advertisements, and so on, in the vicinity?
§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, I was referring to both. Although it may be impossible in regard to all cars, I am sure the Minister would agree that lights on new cars could be made more uniform than they are at the present time. And as to the signals, it is obvious that much more could be done.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, as I say, we have our eyes very much on this matter. We are moving towards greater uniformity and, one hopes, an effective reduction of the kind of problems my noble friend has in mind.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, when the noble Lord says he has no information except from the police, may I ask what about the Road Research Laboratory? Cannot the Road Research Laboratory help a little with regard to the type of lighting? And could the noble Lord not tell us whether yellow headlights, such as are used on the Continent, would not 705 be a considerable improvement on some of the more crowded roads in this country?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, the Road Research Laboratory has done a great deal of work on lighting problems and is of very considerable help in conducting detailed investigations into certain specialised aspects, but it is unable to cover the complete field. As regards the question of yellow as against white headlights, I do not want to argue the matter with the noble Earl at the present time, but I can assure him that there are certainly two schools of thought about it.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is not aware that there is great urgency in bringing this uniformity into effect as soon as possible'? Is he not aware that, particularly on nights when it is wet, with so many shop advertisement lights being displayed, in many cases conflicting with the colours of indicator lights on cars, it is very difficult to judge which way a car is turning or even if it is stopping? Should there not be some uniformity, not only in the size of the lights and the indicators but also in the colour? The front lights on cars are often either white or amber, and it is very difficult to tell whether one is looking at the front of the car or the back of the car.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I think that if anyone is displaying amber lights on the front he is committing an offence, because the regulation specifies that the positional lights indicating the width of a car should be white. So far as I am aware, 'the only amber light one can show to the front is a flashing indicator.
§ LORD SHEPHERDThat is what I mean.
§ LORD CHESHAMThen it is flashing on one side of the car only, and therefore unlikely to be confused with sidelights. But we are certainly very much aware of the problem the noble Lord has mentioned, which we could perhaps call the confused nature of lights on wet nights. It is a subject we think about a good deal and we hope to effect improvement steadily as time goes on.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, cannot the manufacturers achieve some uni- 706 formity with just a bit of persuasion by the Government?
§ LORD CHESHAMI have already said that that is already going on.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I am not quite clear why the noble Lord says that this is too wide a subject to be referred to the Road Research Laboratory. I used to have much to do with the Road Research Laboratory, as the noble Viscount the Leader of the House has now, and in my experience they have to deal with very wide problems indeed. I wonder whether the noble Lord would consider asking his right honourable friend the Minister of. Transport whether he would call for a further report from the Road Research Laboratory.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I have great sympathy with what the noble Marquess said, but I think he did not take me quite correctly. It was not the question of lighting that I referred to as being too wide, but rather the problem of the complete analysis of accidents. I assure him that in consultation we have every intention and hope of getting as much help and value from the Road Research Laboratory as possible.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords. I should like to thank the Minister for the kind way in which he has treated this Question and I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bossom, for having put it down. May I ask the Minister whether he will not seek to get wider research established than is going on at present, because we are all puzzled about these differing aspects on the roads which add to accidents?
§ LORD CHESHAMI would certainly not disagree with what the noble Viscount has said, and I positively agree with him that there should be continued action and research into this problem.
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, in his original reply my noble friend stated that lights should be shown on vehicles to indicate the width of the vehicle. May I ask him whether his right honourable friend has any intention and, if not, Whether he will consider the point, that lights should be shown on such vehicles as lorries to indicate the height of the vehicle? And, 707 if so, should they not also show the width at the top? There is nothing more dangerous at night than lorries being driven, the height and width of which one does not really know.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I think the best thing to do would be to convey to my right honourable friend the general gist of your Lordships' opinions. including the opinion of my noble friend Lord Gosford.