§ 2.43 p.m.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether their attention has been called to the fact that in Sweden there were only two road deaths during the last Christmas holiday period, and that, allowing for the difference in population and number of cars, a proportionate number of fatalities in this country would have been approximately 16, instead of the 127 actually recorded; and seeing that in Sweden a blood test for drivers is enforced, with exceptionally severe penalties for driving under the influence of liquor, and further that in Sweden a speed limit of 48 m.p.h. on the open road was experimentally enforced over the Christmas holiday, whether the Government is studying the Swedish example with a view to adopting, or adapting, it in this country.]
§ LORD CHESHAMYes, my Lords, Her Majesty's Government are anxious to gain any possible benefits from the results of experience of road safety measures adopted by other countries and would not hesitate to apply such measures for use in this country if this seemed likely to contribute towards road safety. My right honourable friend the Minister of Transport maintains a close contact with his European colleagues through the European Conference of Ministers of Transport which regularly discusses road safety problems as well as other transport matters. Apart from this my right honourable friend arranges for ad hoc consultation with the appropriate authori- 708 ties in other countries on particular road safety matters. While it is not always useful to make direct comparisons between the accident records for very short periods in different countries, my right honourable friend is nevertheless proposing to take the first convenient opportunity of finding out more details of Swedish experience last Christmas.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, owing to the difference in climate and conditions of traffic generally, it may not be rather dangerous to draw too much in the way of comparison from a country like Sweden?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I think it is certainly necessary to obtain the fullest possible details on this matter before attempting to draw any conclusions.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, although, as my noble friend Lord Howe has suggested, it is always dangerous to draw comparisons because there are always contrasts, would not the Minister agree that valuable deductions could probably be drawn from such an obviously successful experiment in a country which, admittedly, has poor roads and worse surfaces, but nevertheless presents many similarities? May I ask one further question, in case the possible unpopularity of adopting or adapting the Swedish example should enter into Ministerial calculations?—I am sure that questions of popularity and unpopularity seldom do, but should they do so, is the Minister aware that in a recent British television feature viewers, so I am told, saw a Swedish citizen being interviewed, and in the course of the interview he said that the Swedish law on drink and driving was very tough and had been very unpopular indeed at first in Sweden, but that they now accepted it and felt that it should be copied all over the world?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, if the noble Lord would be a little patient with me as I endeavour to answer his some what complex supplementary question, I would say this. As I understand the matter, on the information I have at the moment, I do not know that the particular experiments to which he refers are accepted as an unqualified success in Sweden. For instance, I have seen it stated—I do not associate myself or 709 otherwise with this opinion—that it is difficult to draw any definite conclusion on speed limits owing to the fact that the roads were covered in ice and snow at the time in any case, and therefore there was a physical speed limit in operation at the time. But I can assure the noble Lord that there is a great deal of controversy in Sweden as to whether or not this has been really effective. I think the best thing would be, as said before, to obtain the fullest possible information and to estimate and evaluate it as accurately as may be.
§ LORD FERRIERMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, when making these inquiries, the Government would contemplate going into the question of regulations in Sweden in regard to the halting of vehicles on highways, and perhaps even the parking of them? In the view of some of us, this is a major cause of the really serious accidents, particularly when bad road conditions exist.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I will certainly suggest that what my noble friend puts forward should be done. I hope it will not have escaped his notice that we have already started certain action on the same lines.
§ LORD FERRIERMy Lords, I meant in comparing the figures. Do the Swedish regulations compare with ours?