HL Deb 05 December 1961 vol 236 cc12-6

3.1 p.m.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, I beg to ask a Question of which I have given Private Notice: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the serious deterioration in the Congo situation, and of the attacks yesterday by President Tshombe on the United Nations and its Secretary-General, they will make a statement.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF HOME)

My Lords, the situation in the Katanga has deteriorated in the past week. Incidents which have taken place have resulted in casualties on both sides. The Katangans are believed by the United Nations to be holding a number of United Nations servicemen and civilians, although they have only admitted to Her Majesty's Consul to holding one. The United Nations deny that they hold any Katanga gendarmes. Her Majesty's Consul has told Mr. Kimba on his own initiative that he hopes that any prisoners held will be released at once. Mr. Kimba, I understand, is acting in Mr. Tshombe's absence. He has since repeated this at the request of the United Nations. I have seen reports of Mr. Tshombe's speech in Paris on December 4, and I regret very much the nature of his intemperate remarks. There is a serious danger that a continuation of these incidents may lead to serious fighting. Her Majesty's Government will therefore continue their efforts to lower the tension in every way open to them.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, I am much obliged to the Foreign Secretary for his reply. I take especial note of what he says, and I am very pleased to see it: that the Government will continue their efforts to lower the tension in every way open to them". But with regard to this Congo situation may we have some idea as to what the Government's intentions are regarding the charges made by the recently resigned representative of the United Nations in the Congo against the British Government, the French Government and the Belgian Government, as well as, I think, the very intemperate suggestions about many British citizens in a later statement? As there is a very grave charge against the British Government for a breach of faith with regard to the implementation of the United Nations resolution, ought not the Government at once to make an official statement?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, one really cannot make official statements in response to every melodramatic statement which is made anywhere in the world. But I will just make quite clear what the British Government's position is in the context of what Mr. O'Brien said. The question of Mr. O'Brien's employment is purely one for the United Nations and for the Irish Government. They were his two employers. Her Majesty's Government are not concerned in the matter at all.

The policy of Her Majesty's Government towards the Congo has been made crystal clear in statement after statement, first by myself in the United Nations General Assembly debate; secondly, by my right honourable friend the Lord Privy Seal in another place; and, thirdly, by Sir Patrick Dean, our Permanent Representative in the United Nations. All of us have made clear that we believe that the use of force in the Katanga by the United Nations should be limited to preventing civil war and maintaining order; and that was included in the resolution of February 21. When the recent resolution went beyond that, we made it quite clear in public in the United Nations that we thought that was a mistake. Equally, we have never lost any opportunity in telling Mr. Tshombe and his Ministers in the Katanga that we did not believe that Katanga had any future as an independent State and that therefore he should come together with Mr. Adoula, the Prime Minister, in Leopoldville, and they should work out between them a Constitution for the Congo, which would be broadly representative of what the Congolese people want. Those have been the only two activities which the United Kingdom Government have undertaken, and, I must repeat, we still think that the use of force beyond preventing civil war and maintaining law and order does more harm than good in the Congo.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, I am very much obliged for the Foreign Secretary's very full statement. Of course, we knew of his original statement in the House at the time he made it, and we appreciated it, but it is a pity that an equally clear statement was not issued on behalf of the Government immediately these charges appeared in the Press. I think it is a great pity that that was not done. If still we have to put on the Foreign Secretary's statement an interpretation of what it really means, does it not mean this? If these charges that the British Government have been an obstacle, with others, to the carrying out of the United Nations policy in the Congo, as laid down by the United Nations themselves, are not correct, then Mr. O'Brien is just simply not telling the truth. And that is what I think is the position arising from the Foreign Secretary's statement.

LORD REA

My Lords, before the Foreign Secretary answers, might I say that, while we all very much welcome his assurance regarding the excessive use of force, there is, nevertheless, a broad feeling of surprise that this comparatively minor area of Katanga can be standing up against the whole strength of the United Nations and, to some extent, getting away with it. Can he assure the House that steps such as sanctions, or something on those lines, are being taken to bring the full force of world opinion against the Katanga into effective use?

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, before the Foreign Secretary answers that, may I ask whether this House does not support the Foreign Secretary in his determination to seek peace and ensure it in the Congo, and whether the Foreign Secretary and the House do not think that it is not a case, or should not be, of the United Nations being against Tshombe, but that both sides, Adoula and Tshombe, have their rights, and that the right thing to do is to try to bring about a solution which brings them together, not by suppression but by conciliation?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, could I please reply now, otherwise we shall get confused with too many questions. Of course I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Rea, and I stated this many times. The objective which we all want to see, and which I take it most people want to see, in the United Nations, is a united Congo. I myself have made it clear that I think the obvious solution is a federal or a confederal solution that suits African conditions. What we have to do—but so far it has not been possible —is to make these African gentlemen come together to talk about the solution. The Katanga is not the only part the Congo in which there is a secessionist movement. There is a strong secessionist movement by Mr. Gizenga in Stanleyville; and, therefore, if United Nations policy is applied it must be applied all over, equally and fairly, and there must not be selection. But it is not for us, indeed, or the United Nations, to say what constitutional pattern the Congolese should adopt. This must be worked out by the Congolese themselves and must not be worked out, in our opinion, by force applied from outside.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, while recognising that the Congo is not viable without Katanga's being a part of it, it is not nevertheless the fact, or at any rate a view that can be sustained, that it would be better to build a new Congo around the only part of it in which there is law and order and viability rather than try to destroy that part and thus add to the chaos which exists in the greater part of the Congo?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, we have great anxiety that the situation in the Congo should not be made worse, and we have made it quite clear that we think the application of force in the way I have described was in danger of making it worse, and indeed has contributed to some extent to the deterioration of the situation. But I must repeat that the only satisfactory solution for the future of the Congo must be one worked out by the Congolese themselves. I think this country could supply many able advisers who could help the Congolese in these matters. I wish it were possible that we could do so, and I hope somebody will be found who will be able to act as a go-between or a conciliator to help Mr. Adoula and Mr. Tshombe to come together to settle the constitutional pattern.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, may I take it that the Government are continuing in constant touch on this matter with the other African States who are members of the Commonwealth?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, I do not think it is any good concealing that from the earliest days when Mr. Lumumba began to operate there have been some differences within the Commonwealth. But there are Commonwealth meetings in the United Nations every fortnight, when the Commonwealth members meet together and these matters are discussed. I was present at one myself not long ago. I think everybody will feel that in the present dangerous situation all the efforts of the United Nations and the members of the Commonwealth who are concerned about this matter should be applied to pacification and conciliation, and not to the application of force.