HL Deb 05 December 1961 vol 236 cc5-7

2.45 p.m.

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is likely to be the effect on the cost of living, and in particular on the price of fuel, food and building costs, of the proposal by the Road Haulage Association to raise haulage rates by 7½ per cent.]

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, road haulage rates are not included in the index of retail prices, and so the proposed change will not affect the index figure directly. Indirect effects cannot, I am afraid, be forecast because they will depend upon the extent to which additional costs are eventually passed onto consumers of the goods carried.

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, is it not a fact that this increase in road haulage rates is bound to have some effect upon the cost of living, and on the cost of goods consumed by many people, particularly for those with lower incomes? Is it not a fact also that at least 50 per cent. of the extra cost which is necessitated comes not from higher wages but from the direct action of Her Majesty's Government in the last Budget of increasing the fuel tax and the road fund licences on these heavy haulage vehicles?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, in answer to the first question, I do not think I ought to speculate upon what the possible results will be, since they cannot be forecast. We shall have to wait to see what happens. As regards the noble Lord's second question, the Government, of course, were in no way a party to this decision of the Road Haulage Association, and I am not in a position to say what were the factors they had in mind in reaching that decision. But I should imagine that the proposed increased rates are occasioned at least in part by the wage increases which are to come into effect in the industry on January 1.

LORD WALSTON

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree, even without making any forecast as to the effect that this might have, that it is going to make any pay pause increasingly difficult when the cost of transport of certain essential items goes up by this quite considerable amount?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I do not think I could agree about that.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, would the noble Lord say, if the Government are not a party to this increase, why they are not a pasty to it, when they seek most vigorously to be a party against any suggestion that there should be an increase in wages?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, the Government are not a party to this decision because they do not control in any way the activities of the Road Haulage Association.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, nor do they control the activities of the trade unions. Nevertheless, they seek to be a party to these decisions and to prevent any wage increases, but apparently they have done nothing whatever about this increase in the road haulage charges which, whatever the noble Lord says, is bound to affect end prices.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, the Government are not a party to the decisions of the Association, and they cannot do anything about the proposed increase in charges

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, is it not obvious that a good deal of the make-up of the increased transport charge arises from what is called the "little Budget", from the imposition of new charges by the Government, and therefore the Government have some responsibility for it?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I can only say again what I said to the noble Lord, Lord Walston. I do not know, and the Government do not know, for what reason the Association have come to the decision they have reached.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, surely the noble Lord will agree that, if the Government do not know, it is their duty to find out. They are finding out about proposed wage increases. The whole thing is that you cannot go on increasing the cost of living and expect a wages pause to continue. Why do the Government not accept the responsibility of going to the Road Haulage Association and discussing this matter with them?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I think we are now going very much further than the original Question. I do not think I ought to make any sort of general pronouncement, in answer to a question like this, about the Government's attitude to prices.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, have not the National Coal Board put up the price of coal? Is not that a case on exactly the same footing?

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

No, no.