§ 3.2 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a statement on the present stage of development of the United States missile Polaris and whether negotiations are taking place with the United States of America for its use, and what effect these negotiations will have upon the plans of Her Majesty's Government for Skybolt and the possible future of Blue Streak.]
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (LORD CARRINGTON)My Lords. Her Majesty's Government have no responsibility for the development of Polaris. So far as the possibility of its use by British forces is concerned, no negotiations are taking place between Her Majesty's Government and the United States Government, although we are very interested in this particular development and, as has previously been said, are in continuous and close touch with the United States Navy's programme of development.
In these circumstances, there can be no effect on the plans which have already been announced to acquire Skybolt missiles with which to equip certain aircraft of Bomber Command, in parallel with those of the United States Strategic Air Command. This partnership is an essential part of the deterrent, and it must be maintained. Nor does the Polaris programme in any way affect the decision to cease the development of Blue Streak as a military weapon.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am much obliged to the First Lord of the Admiralty for his Answer. I presume that, as the British Government have had no part in the development of Polaris, and no responsibility at all, that 1095 is the reason why we get the information in the first instance through an American film on Panorama—a most magnificent film, I think, and very demonstrative of the power of this almost entirely new operational deterrent. But may I ask the noble Lord, there having been no conversations as to the possible use of this weapon by the British member of N.A.T.O., whether it is proposed to extend its use to other members of N.A.T.O., or will this matter be discussed; particularly (I hope the noble Lord will forgive the length of the question) having regard to the view expressed from the American naval standpoint in the London Times series of articles on defence a few days ago, that this new form of submarine armed with such missiles could be destroyed only at base before it left or at base when it arrived back from its work? Further, has there been any conversation, as hinted in the Press, as to when one of these bases might be situated in this country? That would perhaps raise a fresh, serious difficulty for some people in this country.
§ LORD CARRINGTONWith regard to the noble Viscount's first supplementary, I have seen, as he has, a great deal of speculation in the Press about the possibility of offers by the United States of Polaris in one form or another for use by N.A.T.O. countries. So far as I am aware, no firm offer has been made and no decision has been reached. With regard to the second part of the noble Viscount's supplementary, this is an entirely different question from his Question on the Order Paper; and, as has been previously said, discussions have been taking place with the United States, but no statement can yet be made.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, do we gather from the noble Lord that Her Majesty's Government have to wait for an offer, or are discussions taking place? And are Her Majesty's Government considering the suggestions that were made from a number of different parts of this House as to the possibility of the use of Polaris, not necessarily on a nuclear submarine of the kind we may not be able to afford to build, but on surface vessels?
§ LORD CARRINGTONWhat I said—I think the noble Lord must have misheard me—was that, with regard to N.A.T.O., no offer has yet been made, so far as I am aware, by the United States Government.
§ LORD OGMOREMay I ask the noble Lord whether it is not a fact that Skybolt does not exist? Is it not also a fact that, even if it did exist, we have no aircraft from which it could be launched?
§ LORD CARRINGTONThe answer to the first question is, Yes. The answer to the second question is, No.
§ LORD OGMOREIn view of the answer to the second question, would the noble Lord indicate what the aircraft are?
§ LORD CARRINGTONThe Vulcan.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHI hope the First Lord of the Admiralty will not mind my pursuing this matter, but the House is always exceedingly anxious about decisions on such vital questions as this. Of course, we do not want to impinge upon very secret conversations, but we think that on such matters of importance as I mentioned in my last supplementary question there ought to be consultation very early, and that Parliament ought to be informed and be able to give a view.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, after what happened with the U.2, are we going to embark on more adventures with this very secret weapon, which we cannot discuss without knowing how we are going to prevent their being used for illegal purposes?
§ LORD CARRINGTONI think, if I may say so, that the noble Viscount is jumping to all sorts of conclusions.
LORD FARINGDONMy Lords, I wonder if the First Lord would tell us whether he is aware that there is considerable anxiety in the country due to this request, or supposed request, by the Americans for the use of British bases for submarines in connection with Polaris, and whether Her Majesty's Government have any ideas which they 1097 can put forward as to the control of the use of this weapon when these submarines are operating from bases in this territory? American bases in this country, as the noble Lord is aware, are under our joint control. Will this in fact be the case? How can it be the case when Polaris submarines are based on British bases?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I have already pointed out that discussions have been taking place with the United States Government, but at the moment no statement can be made. Perhaps the noble Lord would be good enough to wait to see if a statement is made before he asks these questions, which are very difficult to answer when the situation has not arisen.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEWhen the statement is ready, could it include a word as to whether the pledge given by President Eisenhower about the U.2 incident will be binding on his successor?
§ LORD CARRINGTONI am afraid I have no idea what will be included in the statement. Perhaps the noble Viscount will be able to raise that question if and when the statement is made.