HL Deb 10 May 1960 vol 223 cc505-7
VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make it plain to the Government of the South African Union that the existing reference books and penalties consequent on infringements cannot be accepted as applicable to citizens of the British Commonwealth and Empire.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COLONIAL AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF PERTH)

My Lords, my noble Leader not being able to be here to-day, I will answer in his place. I am not sure that I correctly understand the noble Viscount's Question, since, for the purposes of United Kingdom law—that is, the British Nationality Act, 1948—any citizen of the Union of South Africa has the status of "Commonwealth citizen". If his meaning is that the laws of the Union of South Africa with regard to reference books should not apply to citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies. I would remind him that any such persons who go to the Union of South Africa are liable to the laws made by the Parliament of the Union, and if that Parliament decides that the laws about reference books are to apply equally to citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies and to citizens of the Union of South Africa, then that is entirely a matter for the Union Parliament. I would not be reasonable to ask that citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies who go to the Union should be exempted from the laws there, or placed in a more favourable position than citizens of that country with regard to compliance with them, or to penalties for non-compliance.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, what the Question was intended to ask was whether labourers, Basutos and others, who go from their protected countries to the Union and infringe these brutal pass laws, are to be punished without any protest on our part.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I think that I have covered the question raised by the noble Viscount—namely, that anybody who goes to these territories has to obey the laws, which are common to everybody in the territories.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, these are brutal and unjustifiable laws. Do the Government propose to take no action about them?

EARL WINTERTON

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend to bring out this fact—namely, that almost similar repressive laws are in operation in Ghana, and that more than one British subject has been deported from that country. Surely what applies to one country applies to another, as the noble Earl has brought out in his reply.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, if I may mention first the point raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, my noble friend the Leader of the House wrote to the noble Viscount some little time ago and explained the position of our High Commissioners. They do everything they can to look after the interests of United Kingdom citizens in the ordinary course of events. Of course, that applies. But, equally, United Kingdom citizens are bound by the laws of the country to which they go.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, I am afraid that no supplementary question will alter what is a very shocking revelation of the Government's policy.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, could we have a little further assurance? No doubt the Government from time to time bring to the notice of the South African Government the desirability of British citizens within the Commonwealth being fairly assured of the same kind of liberties enjoyed in other sections of the Commonwealth.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I do not think that the noble Viscount would expect me to make any particular comment on that. I think that the position of the Government is well known.

EARL WINTERTON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that if pressure comes from that side of the House to take any action, there will be strong pressure from this side of the House to take action with regard to Ghana?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that this question applies to British citizens wherever they are, and that we on this side of the House would protest equally if British citizens were ill-treated in Ghana or anywhere else?

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl: do these people go voluntarily to the Union or are they forced to go there?

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, the noble Baroness has made a very good point. Of course they go voluntarily, and therefore they must abide by the laws of the country to which they go.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, the noble Earl persists in his attitude, but these people are Basutos, and they would starve if they did not go to work in the Union. It should be the duty of our Government to see that they and their wives have decent protection.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, as I have already said, the High Commissioner does what is appropriate in this case.