HL Deb 29 February 1960 vol 221 cc501-4

3.16 p.m.

Order of the Day read for the Bill to be considered on Report.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)

My Lords, I beg to move that this Report be now received.

Moved, That the Report be now received.—(Viscount Hailsham.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Schedule [Constitution of Public Health Laboratory Service Board]:

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM moved to leave out paragraphs 3 to 5 and to insert instead: 3. The Board shall consist of a chairman appointed by the Minister and such other members so appointed as the Minister thinks lit, and the members shall include—

  1. (a) not less than two persons appointed after consultation with the Medical Research Council; and
  2. (b) not less than two persons with experience as bacteriologists appointed after consultation with such organisations as the Minister thinks appropriate; and
  3. (c) not less than two persons holding office as medical officer of health of a local authority; and
  4. (d) not less than one person appointed after consultation with such organisations as appear to the Minister to represent the hospital service; and
  5. (e) not less than one fully registered medical practitioner engaged in general medical practice, appointed after consultation with such organisations as the Minister may recognise as representative of practitioners so engaged.

4. Subject to paragraph 5 of this Schedule members shall be appointed for a term of three years.

5. Of the members first appointed one-third (as nearly as may be) shall be appointed for a term of one year and one-third (as nearly as may be) for a term of two years; and any member appointed to fill a casual vacancy shall be appointed for the remainder of the term for which his predecessor was appointed."

The noble and learned Viscount said: My Lords, I beg to move the Amendment standing in my name on the Order Paper, which I foreshadowed on the Committee stage. The design of the Amendment has been to meet the views of the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, which he put forward in the two debates we have already had on this subject. As the House will see, it substitutes a new constitution for the proposed Board for that contained in paragraph 3 of the old Schedule; and there are, of course, consequential new paragraphs 4 and 5. The Amendment provides that the Board should consist of a Chairman to be appointed by the Minister of Health and such other members so appointed as the Minister thinks fit, including, first, not less than two persons appointed after consultation with the Medical Research Council; second, not less than two bacteriologists appointed after consultation with suitable representative bodies; third, not less than two medical officers of health; fourth, not less than one person representing the hospital service; and, fifth, not less than one general practitioner.

This arrangement ensures representation of the interests concerned as users of the service, and also of the Medical Research Council and of the special branch of the medical profession concerned in providing the service. The minimum legal number of members under the new clause will be eight, although the minimum intended is nine, but the Minister will be able to appoint members in addition to those specified, if he thinks it necessary, in order to achieve the desirable balance. The specific inclusion of representatives of the hospital service and of general medical practice meets points made by the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, and the Amendment also meets his other point, that the Chairman should not necessarily or always be a member of the medical profession. The appointment will be entirely at the discretion of the Minister, and it is therefore quite possible, as the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, suggested in the Second Reading debate, that a layman may be appointed from time to time. The actual composition of the Board will depend on the results of the Minister of Health's consultations with the various bodies concerned, and it is therefore necessary to await these before the Minister can reach decisions on the chairmanship or membership. My Lords, with that explanation I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 9, leave out paragraphs 3 to 5, and insert the said new paragraphs.—(Viscount Hailsham.)

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble and learned Viscount, and his right honourable friend the Minister of Health, for the very generous way in which they have treated our suggestions on this. I must not claim the credit for it: it was my noble friend Lord Amulree, as well as I; and he has greater experience, perhaps, of the hospital side than I have. But we are very pleased indeed that the Minister and the Lord Privy Seal should have brought the hospital service and the general practitioners into this Council.

I am pleased to see that there is to be no maximum number, so that if it is desired to introduce people who have other interests, that can be done. We know that the length of service of members of the Committee is to be three years, and I presume that this applies to the Chairman as well as to the other members—I think that this is a correct retding of the second line of the new Amendment. It is possible, however, for any member to be reappointed—again this follows in the rest of the Schedule. In that way, this Committee differs from the Medical Research Council, where I do not think reappointment is possible. Nevertheless, we should like to express the hope that in making the appointments the Minister will change the composition from time to time, so that there may be a fairly widespread representation of bacteriologists from the hospitals and other services, and of representatives of the hospital services, so that it will be not a static Committee but a committee varying over the years, with continuity achieved through its officers rather than necessarily through the various members. Once more, I should like to thank the noble and learned Viscount for the way in which he has listened to our representations.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.