§ 3.19 p.m.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government if they are satisfied that those who operate farm machinery are not exposed to undue risk in consequence of the presence of 275 K.v. super-grid lines over many farms and fields where harvesting operations are carried on, in view of the fact that these lines sag down to within 25 feet of ground level and in wet or humid weather a flashover of approximately 14 feet can occur.]
576THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL WALDEGRAVE)My Lords, my noble friend Lord Mills has asked me to reply to this question on his behalf. I am glad to reassure the noble Lord that Her Majesty's Government are satisfied that those who operate farm machinery are not exposed to undue risk. Our records show that no accidents have occurred from flashover from the 275 K.v. super-grid, and in any case, I am advised that a flashover would be 3½ feet and not 14 feet, as suggested. The noble Lord will appreciate that electricity boards are required to construct overhead electric lines in accordance with statutory regulations which lay down the minimum height of the conductors. In accordance with the practice first established before the last war the divisions of the Central Electricity Generating Board, in agreement with the National Farmers' Union, normally send warning letters to farmers at times of hay-making and harvest. In addition, for several years past the National Farmers' Union and the Country Landowners' Association have themselves published similar warnings in their journals.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, may I thank the noble Earl for his reply? Will he explain to his noble friend the Minister of Power my understanding as to why he is not in his place to answer the question himself? I am grateful to the noble Earl and fortunate indeed that he has answered this question himself, because I would draw his attention to the paragraph in the letter to which he has referred which gives rise to the concern. If the noble Earl would allow me to quote the latest circular letter issued by the Generating Board, it says:
The need for care, as you no doubt appreciate, arises from the fact that if stacks are built under or near the lines, it is difficult for farm hands to be certain of keeping the necessary distance away so as to avoid contact either directly or through elevators, pitchforks, et cetera. I need hardly remind you that the voltage of the lines is high, and that if contact were made the result might easily be fatal. Perhaps I should add that a flashover can result from approaching too near a line without necessarily making actual contact.Might I ask the noble Earl, who must have the interest of agriculture at heart, whether, if these lines are so low that contact may be made by an elevator, a combine harvester or even a pitchfork, 577 it is not conclusive proof that they are far too low, that the clearance between the stack and the lines is far too little, and that the lines should be raised higher. Is he also aware that if they are raised to overcome this difficulty, other complications will arise?
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, that was rather a long question, but I am aware of the complications that would occur. What the noble Lord is suggesting would be over-insurance. If the grid lines or any power-conducting lines were put high enough, of course nobody could possibly touch them or get in contact with them at the top of an elevator or anything else. But this would be an extremely costly and unpractical course to take, and it would also affect the amenity problem, in which I know the noble Lord is particularly interested. I should like to emphasise that there have been no recorded accidents from flashover from the super-grid or from the other grid, and I think perhaps the danger is a little exaggerated.
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, is the noble Earl waiting until there is an accident before any action is taken?
EARL WALDEGRAVECertainly not my Lords, but I do not know exactly what the noble Lord wants me to do. We consider that these regulations are satisfactory and that "no undue risk" (that is the term the Question uses) from flashover is likely. The evidence is that it has not happened yet, and we do not think it is likely.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, may I ask whether the noble Earl is aware that if those of us who have such pylons and grids on our farms have not yet had a fatal accident, we have had the threat of it, because we are often left without any light or power at all, because in a thunderstorm it is the first thing that connects and puts things wrong on the farm. That is a fact; that is my own farm experience.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHI am only pointing out that I think the actual dangers of flashover on these things are clearly proved by the 578 constant complete stoppages of current to farms, sometimes with a very dangerous flash indeed. We had one quite dangerous flash recently, in one of our animal sheds. I do hope that some more attention will be given to this matter.
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I cannot quite accept that. From the information given to me there is no evidence of accidents from flashover from a grid at all. There was one accident with the minor grid. It was not a farm accident at all, and it was through contact and not through a flash.
§ LORD BRAYEMy Lords, as a subsidiary question may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether the danger and menace of aerial crop spraying at the large farms has been taken into consideration when siting these super-grids?
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I should like notice of that question. I hardly think it comes as a supplementary to this particular Question which I am answering.
EARL WALDEGRAVEI am sure that it has been taken into consideration. But this must be a matter of balance and judgment. It could be argued that you should never have any overhead grids at all.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHHear, hear !
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHWe have argued in season and out from these Benches that these grids should be underground and not above. The noble Earl will soon be caught between the upper and nether electric grid.
§ THE EARL OF SWINTONMy Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that farmers already pay a great deal for having the electricity brought to them, and that there would be deep resentment if unnecessary regulations were made which caused electricity to be more expensive on our farms?
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHIf that is going to be borne in mind, perhaps the Minister would also consider that there is deep 579 resentment among the farmers, who are paid the magnificent sum of 1s. or 1s. 6d. a year for these dreadful nuisances on their farms and still face the danger of an accident.