§ 4.50 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government—
- (1) whether it is their intention, as stated in Press reports relating to the meeting of "Chincom" in Paris, to withhold from British manufacturers the details of quotas fixed for the export to China of goods on the quantitative control list;
- (2) if so, whether they are satisfied that it is desirable thus to deprive British manufacturers of information intimately connected with their export business; and
- (3) whether the information is communicated to the United States Government through its representative on "Chincom", even though the United States does no export trade with China.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF GOSFORD)My Lords, as soon as the quota for any item on the quantitative control list is fixed (and I hope that for nearly all the items this will be very shortly), Her Majesty's Government will then be able to inform United Kingdom firms whether or not they will receive a licence to export the item to China. In accordance with the "Cocom" procedures, which apply to all member countries, the actual amounts of the quotas are confidential for security reasons. I can assure the noble Viscount that the interests of United Kingdom exporters have been carefully safeguarded during the discussions in the China Committee on the quotas, and I do not think that United Kingdom firms will find the result 512 unreasonable when it comes to issuing licences for these goods.
In the third part of his question, the noble Viscount appears to misunderstand the functions of the Consultative Group and its committees. The work of the Group is primarily strategic and not commercial. Naturally, economic and commercial factors play their part, but the main business of the Committee is to determine which goods are of sufficient strategic importance to merit control and to secure an agreed application of these controls. There is every reason why we should work together with the United States and the other member countries in this field. The United States Government, as a member of the Consultative Group, is informed by its representative of the recommendations made by the China Committee. But no information concerning actual firms is supplied by member countries to the Committee. Information about particular exports is supplied by all member countries on a confidential basis.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his comprehensive Answer, and I should like to ask him whether the picture he has just painted does not reveal blotches which are inimical to British traders, in that many of the irritations and delays caused by the quantitative controls are those which obtained under the end-use procedure. May I also ask him whether his attention has been drawn to the words of wisdom which fell from the lips of President Eisenhower in his Press Conference on June 5, when he said:
I am personally of the school that believes that trade in the long run cannot be stopped. You are going to have either just authorised trade or you are going to have clandestine trade
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, I entirely agree with those remarks. If the noble Viscount will forgive me for saying so, I think he is making rather heavy weather over what are, in fact, only twenty-five items, which, as I think he was told yesterday, are the only items on this particular list and about which this Question is asked.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKWith great respect to the noble Earl, I would say that what really matters is not the number of articles but the principle upon which this strategic level is fixed.
VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGHMy Lords, if there is to be no further answer, I must say that, while I have always been very careful to safeguard our strategic interests, we have now been recognising the Chinese Government de jure for nearly ten years and it seems to me that some special effort might be made. I hope that Her Majesty's Government will say that they will make every effort to get rid of the position which exists now, and, having recognised the Chinese Government de jure. for so long, may be able to get a removal of the present handicaps to trade. Twenty-five items may not be so important in themselves, but they may represent a much larger deterrent to our future trade than the actual number of items would seem to indicate.
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, do not, think I can entirely agree with that statement. I cannot believe that this small number of items can have that enormous effect on the expansion of trade with China. We released 270 items when we paralleled trade with China with that of other Communist countries.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, from what the noble Earl has said, it appears that the interest of the chairman of this Committee is purely strategic, whereas our interest is commercial. Is it not a great disadvantage to our methods to be working a system where permission to trade is granted by a Committee of which the chairman's policy is a complete embargo?