THE IMPERIAL INSTITUTE (Hansard, 1 August 1957)

§ LORD TEVIOT
My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COLONIAL AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF PERTH)
My Lords, I am replying on behalf of my noble friend Lord Hailsham, who is unable to 514 be here at this hour this afternoon. As your Lordships are aware, the Institute is to move from its present building to allow the expansion of the Imperial College. The Government under-took to secure a new site and to provide a building with equivalent floor space to house the Institute. Legislation will be needed to enable the Trustees to vacate the present building, acquire a new site and build upon it. The Government have every hope that it will be possible to introduce this legislation early next Session.
A suitable site at the south end of the Holland Part Estate has been found, and negotiations for a building lease are at an advanced stage. The lease will be held in the first place by my right honourable friend the Minister of Works, and the Bill will transfer all interests in the land from him to the Trustees. The Bill will also provide for the cost of the new building to be borne on the Vote of my noble friend's Department. As a result of these changes the Institute will be better able to carry on its activities.
Two of the Trustees who are not Ministers, the noble Lord, Lord Brand and Sir Alfred Chester Beatty, have intimated to my noble friend their desire to relinquish their responsibilities in favour of younger men. I am happy to say that Lord Lloyd and Sir Alan Burns have accepted my noble friend's invitation to take the place of the retiring Trustees, to whom I should like to ex press my noble friend's gratitude for the interest which they have shown in the Institute. The third independent Trustee is Lord Soulbury, who was appointed by my noble friend's predecessor to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Lord Bessborough. As your Lordships know, the Institute sustained a heavy loss in the death of the Chairman of the governing body, Viscount Hudson. I am glad to say that the noble Earl, Lord Dundee, has accepted my noble friend's invitation to succeed him.
Subject to the necessary legislation, it is the intention of the Trustees, with the help and advice of the governing body, to press ahead with the planning and erection of the new building. Discussions among all the interested parties are going on to ensure the best use of the available accommodation at South Kensington in the intervening period.

§ LORD TEVIOT
My Lords, I must thank the noble Earl for his comprehensive and, as I think, satisfactory Answer to my Question.

§ LORD OGMORE
While thanking the noble Earl for that statement, I should like to ask one or two questions and also to make a comment. First of all, it seems to me to be the fact that three supporters of the Government have now been put on this rather important Committee.

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
This is a Starred Question.

§ LORD OGMORE
I said I would make a comment. One is entitled to make a comment: but I will put it in question form if the noble Earl wants it that way. It has generally been allowed on this side, on a long statement, to make a comment. Is it not unusual for the Government to put three of their supporters on a non-Party body of this kind, and no supporter from this side, and no independent Member of this House or another place upon it? Secondly, will there be a stoppage or interference with the work of the Institute while this new building is being erected? Thirdly, what is the cost of the new building estimated to be, and, fourthly, will the Government reconsider its policy and not pull down the handsome building, which is comparatively new, in Imperial Institute Road, which now houses the Imperial Institute? I am referring to the building the architect of which was Collcutt.

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
My Lords, the noble Lord referred to the fact that three Government supporters have been appointed to these posts. I do not think I can agree with that. Sir Alan Burns, so far as I know, is neither one of our supporters nor one of the noble Lord's. In fact, so far as I am aware he is independent.

§ LORD OGMORE
My Lords, I was referring to the three noble Lords. Sir Alan Burns is, of course, a very distinguished colonial civil servant, and we have no objection to him. And we have no objections to the noble Lords, except that we think that there might have been one from this side in addition or in substitution.

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
What we did was to take what we thought were the best names and the best people to choose in the circumstances.

§ VISCOUNT STANSGATE
That makes it much worse.

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
That is a matter of opinion.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH
At any rate, it gives us a very good handle for the future.

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
My Lords, on the question of whether there will be stoppages, I would say that inevitably there will be inconvenience to those who at present occupy that building. A large part is in fact occupied by London University. But the various bodies concerned are working out among themselves the best way to carry on with the changes that are taking place.
I am afraid I cannot give the noble Lord an answer on the cost. As I said in my reply, the plans are still in process of being drawn up, and it is premature to give any figures. In relation to the building, I think that that is a subject which has been debated a great deal in your Lordships' House, and a decision was taken. There was, however, if I may put it in that way, a reprieve for that Collcutt tower, and on that investigations are still going on as to whether, in the development scheme for the Imperial College of Science and Technology, it will be possible to leave the tower as a free-standing campanile at a reasonable cost.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, will the noble Earl kindly arrange to print in the OFFICIAL REPORT of to-day, as an appendage to his answer, the names of the governing body of the Imperial Institute in its reconstituted form, so that we might examine the position?

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
Certainly, my Lords. I will see that the names are published. I think perhaps there is some misunderstanding here. Two of the names are those of trustees, who have a very different function from that of the governing body.

§ LORD OGMORE
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl this question, because 517 I am not quite clear? Is there going to be a total cessation of work of the Institute pending the transfer? Because if there is, in my view it would be a very serious matter indeed.

§ THE EARL OF PERTH
My Lords, I quite agree. It certainly is not the intent; on that there should be a cessation. Rather will you have the three bodies who are at present operating in the building collaborating together to find the best way of getting on with the work amongst them. I quite agree with the noble Lord that it would be most unfortunate if anything happened to prevent the excellent activities of the Institute from continuing.

§ LORD OGMORE
My Lords, may I direct a question to the noble Earl who leads the House, and who is Lord President of the Council? It was his predecessor who took this decision. In the view of many noble Lords on all sides of the House it was a wrong decision, and one which will act to the detriment of that part of London and much of London life if this Institute building is pulled down. Would the noble Earl look into the whole question and see whether the time has come to reverse the decision of his predecessor?

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE EARL OF HOME)
No, my Lords.