AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH BILL (Hansard, 16 February 1956)

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL ST ALDWYN)
My Lords, I am moving the Second Reading of this Bill in the absence of my noble Leader, the Lord President of the Council, who, as your Lordships will know, is at present overseas. He would, I am sure, have liked to be able to introduce this Bill to, your Lordships himself, since he is the Minister responsible for the Agricultural Research Council to which it relates; but as the measures concerned are due to come into operation on 1st April next it has been necessary to go on with the Bill before his return.
Your Lordships will know the great debt that our farmers owe to the work of the Agricultural Research Council which, since its establishment in 1931, has steadily widened its activity until to-day its influence is great and far-reaching. I should like at this point to pay a tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Rothschild, who is the present Chairman of the Council. He has contributed a great amount of drive and energy to the work of the Council and he combines in admirable measure all the qualities needed for that post. He is a scientist of great distinction and, at the same time, an experienced practical fanner. The earlier work of the Council also owes a great deal to his predecessor, the noble Earl, Lord De La Warr.
Because of the way agricultural research has gradually grown up in this country over the past 100 years or more, we have to-day a dual system whereby some research institutes are financed and administered directly by The Agricultural Research Council, while others are on the Vote of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, although the Agricultural Research Council is responsible for their scientific policy and scientific direction. Following a recent report or the Select Committee on Estimates, the Government have decided that the financial and general administration of these institutes, as well as their scientific direction, should be unified under the Agricultural Research Council. The institutes 1043 transferred from the Ministry of Agriculture will, however, remain under their separate governing bodies, and the change will apply only to England and Wales; in Scotland, as recommended by the Royal Commission on Scottish Affairs, we think the balance of advantage lies in preserving the status quo, and the institutes now on the Vote of the Department of Agriculture for Scotland will accordingly remain on that Vote.
The change proposed is one of administration only, and no new Statute is necessary in order to carry it out. But one important result of the change will be a transfer of the responsibility for some £2,300,000 expenditure from the Ministry of Agriculture to the Agricultural Research Council, which will raise the Council's expenditure, at present on the Treasury Vote, from about £1,200,000 to about £3,500,000. This is almost a threefold increase—though of course it represents no increase in the total charge on public funds—and we think the time has now come to make the Agricultural Research Council directly responsible to Parliament for its own expenditure.
We propose to do this by the creation of an Agricultural Research Fund, into which the money voted by Parliament will be paid direct, as a grant-in-aid. This method will enable us to avoid turning the Agricultural Research Council into an ordinary Government Department, which would have meant that certain of the Council's scientific staff would have had to become civil servants. The Council's funds will no longer be on the Treasury Vote but will now be on a separate Vote for the Agricultural Research Council, whose Secretary will accordingly appear before the Public Accounts Committee as accounting officer for the new Fund. In this way adequate Parliamentary control will be secured without any loss of independence on the part of the Council.
So much for the main purpose of this short Bill. Apart from this, the only provision to which I should like to direct your Lordships' special attention is that in Clause 1 (1). The Agricultural Research Council was not set up by Statute but operates under a Royal Charter, a copy of which has been placed in the Library in case any noble Lord should wish to refer to it. The oppor- 1044 tunity is being taken in Clause 1 (1) of the Bill to give the Council for the first time the statutory duty of being responsible for the organisation and development of agricultural research. The Council will, as now, be subject to the Privy Council Committee for Agricultural Research, which is to be reconstituted so as to consist of the Lord President of the Council, the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Secretary of State for Scotland. In this way the two agricultural Ministers will be closely associated with the Lord President in the supervision of the Council's work.
I hope that I have said enough to show that this Bill, which represents a minor and somewhat technical piece of financial legislation, need not arouse controversy. It forms part of a reorganisation of the arrangements for agricultural research which is desirable in the interests of good administration. The scientific independence of the Agricultural Research Council, which we all recognise to be essential in the interests of good research, will not be in any way affected by the changes, and we look forward to the fruitful continuation of their most valuable work. I therefore beg to move that this Bill be read a second time.

§ THE EARL OF LISTOWEL
My Lords, we on this side of the House welcome this Bill very warmly and regard it as a contribution to sound administration, as well as to agricultural research. I am sure the noble Earl will agree that it is really a historical accident—the fact that the Agricultural Research Council was born only in 1931—that is largely responsible for the present division of responsibility for research between the Council and various Government Departments. If the Council had been born some years earlier the whole story might have been quite different. It is certainly high time that the administration of the research institutes in England and Wales was unified under the one appropriate authority.
I should like to join the noble Earl opposite in paying a tribute to the work of the scientists in the research institutes, and also to the way in which this work has been directed by the Agricultural Research Council, under the chairmanship of my noble friend Lord Rothschild 1045 who, as the noble Earl said, is himself a Fellow of the Royal Society and a distinguished scientist, and whose energy and knowledge have given it a fresh impetus. I enjoyed, as I am sure the noble Earl opposite now enjoys, my visits in times past to research institutes when I was in the Department, although I must confess that I sometimes found the explanation of the experiments that were going on clearer to those who conducted them than it was to me. We were all agreed that the scientists in the past have made British agriculture what it is and that its future will largely depend upon their discoveries.
I should like to make only two brief comments on the Bill. I am sorry that it has been found necessary to leave the management of the agricultural research institutes in Scotland in the hands of the Scottish Office. It is true that the Agricultural Research Council will supervise the work of these institutes and advise the Agricultural Department of the Scottish Office about research programmes, and about expenditure on research, but it does not follow by any means that this advice, excellent as it may be, will be followed. Surely, it would be an advantage if the Council were to have executive authority in Scotland as it will have, when this Bill has been passed into law, in England and Wales. Moreover, the administrative economies of unification would obviously be larger if unification was complete. This decision is, of course, a concession to local patriotism, but I cannot help feeling that it does more credit to the feelings of our Scottish neighbours than it does to their well-known common sense. I have no doubt that that is a controversial statement, and I suppose I shall have the opposite view put by those noble Lords who voice the sentiments of Scotland so eloquently on other occasions. I agree that the decision may be necessary—indeed, it may be indispensable—in the present climate of opinion, but perhaps one clay that climate may change.
My only other comment is about the financing of research. Scientific research, as we all know, takes a long time. There is no field of activity where forward planning is more essential. There might, therefore, be some advantage in treating the Agricultural Research Council like the universities and giving it a long-term grant, say for five years, instead of an 1046 annual grant. Of course, we should be guided in this matter by the wishes of the Agricultural Research Council. It is for the Council to say whether it wants a long-term grant or is satisfied by the present proposal of an annual grant. I should like to ask the noble Earl whether he can accept the principle of a longterm grant, and whether the period of the grant could be altered administratively or whether it would require further amending legislation.
There is one final question I should like to put, arising out of the noble Earl's opening remarks about the responsibility of the noble Marquess the Leader of the House, who, as Lord President of the Council, has a general responsibility for scientific research. If noble Lords on either side of the House wish to put clown Questions about agricultural research, will they be answered by the noble Earl, Lord St. Aldwyn, in his capacity as the Minister responsible in your Lordships' House for agriculture, or will they be answered by the noble Marquess, in his capacity as the supervisor of research generally in the country?

EARL ST. ALDWYN
My Lords, as regards the noble Earl's first point, I feel that, in view of the fact that he is an Irishman and I am an Englishman, we had better leave Scottish affairs to those more closely connected with that area North of the Border. The noble Earl also raised the point about there being advantage if the Agricultural Research Council could have their vote on a quinquennial basis. So far as I know, the work of the Research Council has not suffered as a result of the system of annual grants which has operated up to now but if the Agricultural Research Council should come to thy; conclusion that with the new responsibilities which they have now been given there would be some advantage in their knowing the level of their grants for a period of five years, then I am sure my right honourable friends would consider carefully any proposal along those lines. As to who would answer questions about the Agricultural Research Council and its work, as the noble Earl realises, the Lord President of the Council is responsible. I imagine that he would answer in this House. He, being in this House, must have an agent in the other place, and that position is 1047 now held by my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.