§ 2.42 p.m.
§ LORD HANKEYMy Lords, may I be allowed to put the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether a suitable substitute has yet been found for the use of agene in flour for human or animal consumption, and whether they can now name an approximate date when it can be abandoned in accordance with the assurance given in this House by the 542 Joint Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries, on 10th June, 1953.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD CARRINGTON)My Lords, I would refer the noble Lord to the reply given by my noble friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster on December 2, 1953. A sub-committee of the Inter-departmental Standing Committee on Medical and Nutritional Problems is at present considering the results of the recent tests carried out by the Medical Research Council on methods of flour improvement. We must await their recommendations and the outcome of the consequential discussions with the interests concerned before a statement can be made.
§ LORD HANKEYMy Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, could I ask him to confirm the dates? It was on June 10, 1953, was it not, that the noble Lord made a very precise statement. He said (OFECIAL REPORT, Vol. 182, col. 856):
… it has been decided to abandon the use of agene as soon as a suitable substitute can be found,and on December 2 the noble Viscount the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster told us that he hoped to have an answer within three months. My Lords, I have been very patient and have waited five months. Cannot the noble Lord give us some idea of the date—this year, next year, now or never?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, it certainly will not he "never," but I should not like to commit myself as to the date on which a statement will be made. However, I stick by the statement I made on June 10 of last year. The Government have every intention of abandoning the use of agene when a suitable substitute has been found, but I hope that the noble Lord will agree that we should make most careful and elaborate inquiries before we accept any other substitute.
§ LORD HANKEYIn thanking the noble Lord for that answer, may I ask whether he can give us any information about this Committee, the name of which I do not carry in my mind but which had before it the results of the Medical 543 Research Council? Is it really possible that in all this time, with only about three or four choices, or possibly five at the outside—most of them bad ones—they have not yet discovered how it is possible to make suitable bread without agene? May I also ask whether any information can be given about this Council that is to bring it up?
§ LORD CARRINGTONThis Committee is an Inter-departmental Committee, the Chairman of which is Sir John Charles, the Chief Medical Officer of Health, and on it are represented the milling and baking industries.
§ LORD TEVIOTBefore the noble Lord sits down, may I ask him this question: I have been informed, on very good authority, that the reason for the delay in taking agene out of the flour at the present time is the fact that the millers are not quite ready with the alterations to their machinery. I should be grateful if the noble Lord could tell me whether or not there is any truth in my information.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, the information which I have on the subject I have given your Lordships; and that is the only information I have.
§ LORD DOUGLAS OF BARLOCHMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord why it is necessary to have all this delay and research in finding substitutes when, up to twenty or thirty years ago, it was possible to make far better bread than is sold in the market to-day, without the use of any of those substitutes?
§ LORD CARRINGTONThe views of the noble Lord, Lord Douglas of Barloch, are well known, and he has on several occasions initiated debates on this subject, but I do not think that what he has said arises out of the Question.