§ 3.5 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask two Questions and I thank the noble Earl, Lord Munster, for his courtesy in taking them at short notice. The first is this: To ask Her Majesty's Government under what legal power the Kabaka of Buganda was deported.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (THE EARL OF MUNSTER)My Lords, the regulations providing for deportation were made by the Governor of Uganda under the Emergency Powers Order in Council, 1939, and an order was then made under these regulations.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEWhat is the date of that order?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTER1939.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEThat is the general power. When was the order made under the emergency powers—recently, or has it always existed?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERA few days ago, when trouble occurred, the Governor declared an emergency in that part of Uganda known as Buganda.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEThe fact is that the Governor privately took steps to deport the Monarch without informing Parliament, which was subsequently told that the decision was final and could not be altered.
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERThat is quite wrong. The Governor took the emergency powers granted to him under the Order in Council of 1939, and introduced them when the Kabaka was deposed.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEWhy was it, first of all, that the Attorney-General said that this was done under the Agreement of 1900? That is the first point. Secondly, why was not Parliament informed that the Governor had suddenly made this order, under the old powers, to do this act which he contemplated?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERParliament was informed by my right honourable friend, when he made a statement in another place a few days ago giving the House full information about the decision which had been reached in the case of the Kabaka.
§ LORD BURDENMay I ask the noble Earl whether the regulations to which he has referred were regulations made to deal with war-time conditions—seeing that the date is 1939—and whether those war-time regulations are being stretched to cover peace-time conditions?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERI think not. The Order in Council was made on March 9, 1939.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEWe are not speaking about the regulations of 1939—we are talking about the order. Was the order laid before this House, or was this House informed a few days ago that such an order under the old regulations existed?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERMay I recommend to the noble Viscount that he should examine the Emergency Powers Order in Council which was passed in 1939, where all those points are particularly mentioned.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEI may be quite mistaken, but do I understand that the power of deportation existed in 1939, or that the power to make an Order for Deportation existed in 1939 and was not used until a few days ago by the making of such an order?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERWhen the Governor has made an order under the Emergency Powers Order in Council, 1939, Paragraph 6 (2) says that
the regulations may make provision for the detention of persons and the deportation and exclusion of persons from the territoryand the Order in Council refers, amongst other territories, to the Uganda Protectorate.
§ EARL JOWITTIt would be useful if we saw all these documents, including the recent order of a few days ago. Are they available in the Library of your Lordships' House?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERI am sure that the Emergency Powers Order in Council of 1939 is in the Library. If it is not, I will certainly make certain that the noble and learned Earl receives a Copy.
§ EARL JOWITTBut I want to see the order made a few days ago under which action was taken. Can we see that?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERThe Governor would make this by a Proclamation. I will not say that the Proclamation has yet been received at the Colonial Office, but the moment it is, the noble Earl shall have it.
§ EARL JOWITTWe shall have it as soon as possible?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERYes.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEDoes that mean that the Governor is empowered to make an order and depose the reigning chief without any consultation with this House, or even with the Colonial Office?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERThe noble Viscount knows sufficient about the art of government to know that the Governor is in full touch with the Colonial Office from day to day. We were perfectly aware that the Governor was going to make a Proclamation under the Emergency Powers Order in Council of 1939.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEPerhaps the noble Earl would inform the Attorney-General of these facts, of which last night, in another place, he was totally ignorant.
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERI thought that the Attorney-General was extraordinarily good last night.