§ 2.57 p.m.
§ LORD VANSITTARTMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the assurance given in this House on 15th July that refugees could count the full protection of our courts. Messrs. Sychev and Ogorodnev have now been asked to leave this country; and whether the Foreign Office will take the elementary precaution, before granting any further permits for Soviet or satellite representatives to exceed the 25-mile radius, of ascertaining the real purpose of such excursions.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF READING)My Lords, I have received reports about the recent visits of officials of the Soviet Embassy to Derby and Bradford. These visits are a matter of public concern and have caused alarm among the refugees from Eastern Europe living there. I accordingly requested the Soviet Chargé d'Affaires to call, and I have drawn his attention to the highly undesirable nature of these activities. I trust that these representations will be effective.
The answer I gave in your Lordships' House on July 15 still applies. And I repeat that refugees are in no sense obliged to entertain such approaches, let alone yield to them, and should report to the police any cases in which they consider that improper pressure is being exercised on them. I would also repeat 1067 that refugees resident in this country can rest assured that they have the full protection of our courts and that no foreign authority can by arbitrary action force them to leave this country against their will.
§ LORD VANSITTARTMy Lords, when the noble Marquess gave me that assurance about the protection of our courts on July 15, I presumed he realised that such an assurance is quite inoperative when the transgressors are members of a foreign Embassy, because there is no court that has jurisdiction over them. Therefore, in such a case as this the assurance is quite illusory. I should also like to ask the noble Marquess whether he realises that this kind of thing is going on the whole time. I have here in my pocket details of another three or four such cases. The scandal is a very grave one. These people live in considerable apprehension, and I would ask him again whether more effective steps cannot be taken to remedy this situation.
THE MARQUESS OF READINGMy Lords, I confess that I had rather hoped the noble Lord would share my view that in the circumstances it would be right and proper, before pursuing the matter further, to see what was the effect of the representations made to the Soviet Chargé d'Affaires. I hope that these representations may not prove wholly ineffective.
§ LORD VANSITTARTMy Lords, I propose to send to the noble Marquess a collection of other cases of intimidation which have taken place in this country since he last gave me that assurance. If there are any further cases after the notice which he served on the Soviet Chargé d'Affaires, I shall be compelled to raise the matter again in a more serious form in your Lordships' House.
THE MARQUESS OF READINGMy Lords, the noble Lord must not take it that we do not know of any cases. I have said that we know of these cases, and they are the kind of cases upon which my conversation with the Soviet Chargé d'Affaires was conducted. As regards the rather admonitory remark with which he finished—I was going to say his question, but I think I may say his speech, all I will say is that if he thinks fit to raise this matter, after having seen whether the present representations 1068 have any effect, of course, I shall be delighted to discuss the matter with him.
§ LORD VANSITTARTMy Lords, the noble Marquess has not, in any case, answered the second part of my question. May I have an answer to that?
THE MARQUESS OF READINGMy Lords, as regards these two individuals, there is at the present moment no evidence on which we could ask for their recall. As regards the question of permits, the noble Lord, if I may say so, is not quite accurate in referring to permits. It is not a question of permits. It is a question of those members of the Soviet Embassy who desire to move outside the twenty-five miles radius notifying the Foreign Office that they desire so to do. That notification does not call for any statement as to the purpose of a particular journey. Before the noble Lord puts a supplementary on that, I would ask him to bear carefully in mind that the regulations which we have made in that regard are similar to the ones which are applicable to the members of our Embassy in Moscow.
§ LORD VANSITTARTMy Lords, is not such a limitation quite ineffective, if a man has only to ask for a permit and can go off and do something highly undesirable, like this episode in Bradford, which does not stand alone—there are heaps going on in other towns?
THE MARQUESS OF READINGMy Lords, it is not wholly ineffective, because it enables us to know that the man has gone there.