HL Deb 09 May 1951 vol 171 cc808-10

2.44 p.m.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask His Majesty's Government how many pictures have been sent for display in the official houses of British Ambassadors in foreign countries, as authorised under Section 1, subsection (1) (b) of the National Gallery (Overseas Loans) Act. 1935.]

THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR)

My Lords, I am informed by my right honourable friend the Minister of Works that under Section 1 (1) (b) of the National Gallery (Overseas Loans) Act, 1935, eighty-one pictures belonging to the National Galleries have been sent to British Embassies.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for his reply, but may I ask him this supplementary question—whether His Majesty's Government will consider the introduction of legislation this Session to extend Section 1 of the 1935 Act to cover the houses of Governors-General?

LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR

My Lords, I see no objection whatever to extending the Act, but I cannot hold out any hope that it will be done this Session. The noble Earl will know the difficulty which we experienced some time ago in obtaining an agreement when we were dealing with the Tate Gallery Bill in 1947, and the British Museum Bill in 1949. Unanimous agreement among the trustees is a necessary preliminary, and without securing that we could not undertake to introduce legislation.

VISCOUNT SWINTON

My Lords, arising out of that reply, I am not sure that I fully understand the position. Surely, legislation is a matter for Parliament, and not for the trustees. No doubt that point will be elaborated, as I understand that in any case legislation this Session is not possible. But does not that make it the more important that full use should be made of the existing legislation? Quite frankly, the distribution of eighty-one pictures among what must now be almost eighty-one Embassies, each having considerable wall space, does not seem to be a very adequate use of an Act which was passed in 1935. In this Festival era could not the air of festivity be a little more widely extended to the walls of our Embassies?

LORD MAC DONALD OF GWAENYSGOR

My Lords, as regards the trustees and legislation, I am advised that any legislation to amend the Act would have to be proposed by the trustees in unanimous agreement. As regards the lack of use of these facilities, the noble Viscount will remember that in 1949 an appeal was made in another place for the loan of pictures to the Government, particularly for use at Embassies overseas. The result has been very disappointing. This opportunity may be taken of reminding your Lordships generally that pictures lent in this way are treated with expert skill, and are sent only to suitable climates. They remain the property of the owners, and such loans can be made for a specific period of years.

VISCOUNT SWINTON

My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for that extremely understanding and sympathetic answer. May I also ask him to make sure that his answer finds its way to what-ever is the appropriate quarter? I should also like to ask this question. Is it not a fact that in many cases private owners have lent pictures? I remember, for instance, that when I was at the Embassy in Washington during the war, the only pictures there were those lent by Lord Lothian, when he was Ambassador, and those taken out by the noble Earl, Lord Halifax, when he was Ambassador. Would it not be fitting that the appropriate authorities should not be behind private owners in their generosity?

LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR

My Lords, I can give an undertaking that I will bring the matter to the notice of the appropriate authorities, but I do not think they have been much behind private owners.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

My Lords, arising out of the question asked by my noble friend Viscount Swinton, do I understand that these eighty-one pictures come solely from the National Gallery and the Tate Gallery, and that no account is taken of any picture which has been either taken to a British Embassy by the reigning Ambassador or lent by some other donor?

LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR

My Lords, I am advised that the eighty-one pictures include those sent by the galleries named and by private owners.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

My Lords, can the noble Lord reduce those figures further and exclude the number offered by private owners?

LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR

Not without notice.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

That is exactly the question I have down on the Order Paper.

LORD LLEWELLIN

My Lords, is it not a fact that there are a great many pictures in the basement of the Tate Gallery which for a long time have not seen the light of day? Could not better use be made of some of those?

LORD MACDONALD OF GWAENYSGOR

That is true.