HL Deb 13 December 1949 vol 165 cc1441-9

4.55 p.m.

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Morrison.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly:

[The Earl of DROGHEDA in the Chair]

Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.

Clause 4:

Authorisation of works, etc.

4.—(1) The execution of works and the carrying on of any activity in the gardens, and the execution of any works authorised or required by any other provision of this Act, if executed or carried on by the County Council, the Company or any person authorised in that behalf by either of them, shall be deemed to be authorised by this Act notwithstanding that it would otherwise be actionable on the ground of nuisance.

LORD LLEWELLIN moved, in subsection (1), after "shall" to insert: during the continuance of the Festival of Britain and no longer.

The noble Lord said: The reason for this Amendment can be stated quite shortly. Clause 4 takes away from anybody, in particular those who live in the vicinity of Battersea Park, the power to bring an action or injunction on the grounds of nuisance in respect of anything carried on during the Festival of Britain. We discussed this matter on Second Reading, and it was quite rightly thought that so that the Company or the County Council should not be embarrassed by having actions or injunctions brought against them, the remedy was to see that no injunction was brought by anybody during the period of the Festival of Britain. But under Clause 3, the County Council are given the right to carry on these works and to maintain these buildings after the time when the Festival of Britain has ceased.

The point that I am dealing with was raised in another place. I think it would be right if I were to quote, as I am entitled to with a Minister present in this House, the words that the Minister of Transport, Mr. Barnes, used when this matter was raised there. He said: I understand that Clause 4 does not carry through this power with regard to a permanent nuisance. It is confined to the period of the Festival. I recognise, however, that it is a valid point, although no one has contemplated that it should continue after the period of the Festival. I recognise also that within the powers of Clause 3 the London County Council has the right of retaining certain buildings, and if the nuisance should be directed to anything of that kind then the matter is one which should be looked into I can assure the honourable and learned Member that between now and the Bill reaching another place it will be further examined. That shows that the Government wish to preclude the right of an injunction only during the period of the Festival of Britain, and that the view of the Minister of Transport at that stage was that Clause 4 did not extend beyond that period. The view I take of the wording of Clause 4— The execution of works and the carrying on of any activity in the gardens, and the execution of any works authorised or required by any other provision of this Act"— those works will be the ones that will be authorised under this Act— if executed or carried on by the County Council, the Company or any person authorised in that behalf by either of them, shall be deemed to be authorised by this Act notwithstanding that it would otherwise be actionable on the ground of nuisance"— is that it means "in perpetuity." In the case of any nuisance arising from any works started under this Act, in perpetuity, the person suffering from that nuisance, or thinking that he suffers from that nuisance, shall he precluded from seeking the remedy of an injunction in the courts, even if the works are carried on by the County Council after the Festival of Britain ceases. That is the construction I place upon the language of Clause 4. If that is so, then it goes beyond what I believe the Government wish to do. My Amendment is put down to show that we only wish to preclude a man from an injunction during the time of the Festival of Britain, and no longer. For those reasons, I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 44, after ("shall") insert ("during the continuance of the Festival of Britain and no longer").—(Lord Llewellin.)

LORD MORRISON

The account which the noble Lord has given of what happened and the reply of the Minister of Transport in another place is perfectly correct. The Minister did promise to consider it, and that consideration has taken place. As a result, I may save the time of the House, as we have a great deal more Business to get through to-day, if I tell your Lordships that I am authorised to say that, while the Government agree that something further is needed to clarify the position, they are not satisfied with the words of the noble Lord's Amendment. Would the noble Lord be willing to withdraw it and put down these words: Page 3, line 41, leave out 'in the gardens,' and insert 'for the purposes of the gardens before the appointed day'"? The clause would then read: The execution of works and the carrying on of any activity for the purposes of the gardens before the appointed day … I am advised that that legally would make perfectly clear what the noble Lord wishes to carry out.

LORD LLEWELLIN

The noble Lord opposite has no doubt put forward words which he thinks will achieve our joint purpose, but surely they ought to be: for the purposes of the Festival of Britain instead of for the purposes of the gardens. I do not know what that means. Would it not be more appropriate to have for the purposes of the Festival of Britain before the appointed day"?

LORD MORRISON

The noble Lord could not have that because, as I understand it, it is proposed to have a separate date for the closing, of the South Bank site. A month later the gardens will close. They will go on for a month after.

LORD LLEWELLIN

I do not mind that. I am sure the words are offered in all good faith by the noble Lord, but I am amazed at the drafting, if I may say so with great respect. If one considers this wording: The execution of works and the carrying on of any activity for the purposes of the gardens before the appointed day, and the execution of any works authorised or required by any other provision of this Act. one regards it as indicating a fellow going out with a spade and digging up the beds.

LORD DE L'ISLE AND DUDLEY

The word "gardens" is defined, but I am still not clear.

LORD MORRISON

That is at page 7.

LORD LLEWELLIN

I see that Clause 11 says: 'the gardens' means festival gardens provided or to be provided on lands enclosed or to be enclosed by virtue of subsection (1) of section one of this Act. Perhaps that does make it a little clearer. My noble friend, Lord Lloyd, wishes to address the Committee. While he is doing so, I will sit down and consider these words.

LORD LLOYD

I want to ask the noble Lord, Lord Morrison, a question. If I have it right, the clause would read: The execution of works and the carrying on of any activity for the purposes of the gardens before the appointed day.… Would that not exclude the following words: and the execution of any works authorised or required by any other provision of this Act …"? The restaint against injunctions would still apply to other works. I am not quite clear whether the noble Lord's Amendment would cover that point as well.

LORD MORRISON

Yes, I think it would.

LORD DE L'ISLE AND DUDLEY

I am afraid that I am still at a loss on this matter. The point of my noble friend's Amendment, as I understand it, is that if we go back to Clause 3 we find If it appears to the County Council that it is desirable that any buildings or works erected … for the purposes of the gardens"— then they agree with the company as to the payment and so on. Then in Clause 4, it seems to me, if these works are made permanent action in regard to a nuisance would be permanently removed. I do not think that is covered by the wording suggested by the noble Lord.

LORD MORRISON

I think the position is that another place was quite agreed in principle that it would be intolerable if it were possible to obtain an injunction while the Exhibition or gardens were being prepared because it would stop the whole work; it would be equally intolerable if it were possible to obtain an injunction during the Exhibition because it would stop the Exhibition. But immediately the Exhibition is over it ought not to be possible for anybody to continue to create a nuisance without there being an opportunity to object. That is the position. For instance, according to this Amendment as I am advised, if the London County Council were to take over some of the entertainment at the end and continue to use the loudspeakers, action would then lie against the London County Council for the use of these loudspeakers and for creating a nuisance; and they could not claim that they were exempt.

LORD LLEWELLIN

In faith and hope I will accept the words that the noble Lord proposes. I am certain the Government mean to put in the right words and mean the right thing. I should have thought it difficult to conceive that using a loudspeaker was "for the purposes of" any gardens. Be that as it may, I think the Government have tried to meet me, and I am grateful to the noble Lord. I will withdraw this Amendment, but I must say I would much sooner that he proposed these other words than that I should adopt them as my Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

LORD MORRISON

I beg to move the Amendment with the new words.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 41, leave out ("in the gardens") and insert ("for the put Poses of the gardens before the appointed day ").—(Lord Morrison.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 5 [Application of provisions of 12 and 13 Geo. 6. c. 26]:

On Question, Whether Clause 5 shall stand part of the Bill?

LORD LLOYD

I would like to raise two points on the question of traffic in Chelsea during the Festival, because there is anxiety felt that the inevitably greatly enhanced traffic there as a result of these gardens will lead to considerable inconvenience to local residents. I am sure His Majesty's Government have that in mind and that they are examining the whole of the traffic and transport situation round these gardens to see that it flows as smoothly as possible, and that the ordinary people who work in Chelsea will be able to get to their work without too great inconvenience. There is bound to be some problem because King's Road, which is the main artery in Chelsea, is extremely narrow. If you try to double the amount of traffic travelling down that road there will be very serious traffic congestion. I raise those points because of anxiety that has been expressed to me in Chelsea, and if the noble Lord can give me some assurance that this will be fully looked into I think it would be much appreciated by the residents in Chelsea generally.

LORD MORRISON

The noble Lord and I have been in correspondence over this, and I am glad to be able to give him some further information on the points which he has raised with regard to the two questions of traffic problems and car parking. The Festival of Britain Office will maintain the closest consultation with the Railway Executive and the London Transport Executive with a view to ensuring minimum interference with normal travel. The time of opening in the morning will be so arranged as to avoid any clash with morning "peak" travel. Special attractions will be designed in the afternoons with the object of delaying the departure of visitors from the gardens until after the normal evening "peak" has passed. Sloane Square station is being reconstructed; the Ministry of Transport are arranging for additional new omnibuses to be available to augment existing road services and to provide some special services to relieve the strain on the normal routes. The Railway Executive are planning special excursions and improved services to stations near to Battersea Park. Some minor road works will be carried out to improve the means of access. The Commissioner of Police has said that he will do all in his power to discourage indiscriminate parking. He can be successful in this respect only if there are adequate authorised parking places to which motorists can be directed. In this connection, the Commissioner attaches the highest importance to the car park to be provided in Battersea Park; without this facility he considered it impossible to achieve the object set. I hope that will assure the noble Lord.

LORD LLOYD

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that full assurance. I am sure that it will meet the points raised by the people whose anxieties I have represented this afternoon.

Clause 5 agreed to.

Clause 6 agreed to.

Clause 7 [Provisions as to river traffic]:

5.16 p.m.

LORD MORRISON moved, in subsection (2) to leave out "in the byelaws, and in particular" and to insert: by or under the byelaws, and in particular byelaws under this subsection may make, or authorise the making of, provision as respects all or any such persons or vessels— (a) for restricting the provision of passenger services to the provision thereof by persons authorised in that behalf. The noble Lord said: The purpose of this Amendment is to allow authorisation of operators of vessels, and the fixing of time-tables and any changes thereof, to be made readily as and when necessary, otherwise than by formal bylaws. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 7, leave out ("in the byelaws, and in particular") and insert the said new words.—(Lord Morrison.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD MORRISON

The next three Amendments are consequential on the preceding Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendments moved—

Page 6, line 13, leave out from ("of") to ("or") in line 14, and insert ("specified descriptions")

Page 6, line 14, leave out ("such") and insert ("specified")

Page 6, line 16, leave out ("as may be so specified ")

—(Lord Morrison.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 8 [Grants towards providing additional landing stages]:

LORD MORRISON

There are four Amendments to Clause 8 and they all run together. Their purpose is to enable the Hammersmith Metropolitan Borough Council to contribute towards the cost of constructing, maintaining and operating a landing stage at Hammersmith. At present they have no powers which would enable them to do this. The Council are desirous of having these powers and it is understood that they will in due course be seeking permanent powers in the normal way through a London County Council (General Powers) Bill. This process could not, however, be completed in time to permit of the landing stage being constructed in time for the Festival. This Amendment was discussed and agreed with the Port of London Authority. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 41, after ("make") insert ("and a metropolitan borough council may make,")—(Lord Morrison.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD MORRISON

I beg to move the next three Amendments.

Amendments moved—

Page 6, line 42, leave out ("or a metropolitan borough council")

Page 6, line 43, after ("constructing") insert ("(including, in the case of grants by a metropolitan borough council, expenses so incurred in maintaining and operating)")

Page 6, line 45, at end insert ("; and a metropolitan borough council may borrow for the purposes of this, section ").—(Lord Morrison.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

House resumed.

Then, Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended (pursuant to the Resolution of December 8), Amendments reported; Bill read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.