§ LORD BROUGHSHANEMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The question was as follows:
§ To ask His Majesty's Government, now that the National Insurance Scheme is in operation, estimated to require a Civil Service staff of 33,000, whether they can say what is the total of the present non-industrial staff of the Civil Service, what additions have been made to the Civil Service since the present Government took office, and whether the Government have any particulars as to the number of local government officials employed by the local authorities in local government.]
THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (LORD PAKENHAM)My Lords, there were 693,402 non-industrial civil servants employed in Government Departments on 1202 April 1, 1948, including 23,052 at that date employed by the Ministry of National Insurance. At the last convenient date for a staff return before the present Government took office—namely, July 1, 1945—there were 715,347 non-industrial civil servants. The reduction effected between these two dates is therefore 22,000. The Service and Supply Departments have reduced their staffs by a considerably larger figure than this, but there have been increases in other directions—for example, in order to operate extended health, education, and national insurance services. Most of the increased numbers under these heads will be found by transfer from similar work formerly outside the Civil Service and not by withdrawal from industry. The number of staff employed in local government is stated in the Monthly Digest of Statistics to have been 1,121,000 in April last.
§ LORD BROUGHSHANEMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for the information he has given, I gather from his figures that over 1,800,000 persons are employed in local and national government, which in these days seems a very large number. I hope the Government have this matter in mind. Has the Minister seen a recent statement that the miners are saying that they strongly object to taking orders from civil servants? As the Minister of Fuel and Power is responsible for the mines, and has to act through civil servants, will the Government explain to the miners, to relieve their anxiety, that where an industry is nationalised, it is necessary for civil servants to give orders since they have to advise the Minister and help him run the "show"?
LORD PAKENHAMThe last matter mentioned by the noble Lord may, perhaps, best be left to the miners themselves; with the greatest respect to the noble Lord, they are probably better qualified to look after their own interests than is the noble Lord I agree with him that this is a very large number, and the Government have had it constantly under review, with the intention of reducing, it wherever possible. They are, of course, always open to receive suggestions from the noble Lord.
§ VISCOUNT SAMUELMay I ask whether the Post Office staff are industrial, or non-industrial?