§ Clause 52, page 66, line 8, leave out ("twenty-five") and insert' ("fifty.")
§ LORD TEYNHAM moved, That this House do not insist on the Amendment
698§ Glasgow, between Liverpool and Manchester, and so on. I appeal to the noble Viscount the Leader of the House to give us some sort of an idea as to why twenty-five miles was chosen and what it represents.
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONI do not think I can add any more. We have discussed this matter at great length. With regard to the point about the Greater London area, the noble Earl must not assume that every operator has the base of his operations on the circumference. Many of them would be inside the area.
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONIt was estimated that that was the figure that was necessary in order to have a sufficient basis of operating vehicles.
§ On Question, Whether the said Motion be agreed to?
§ Their Lordships divided: Contents, 57; Not-Contents, 12.
697| CONTENTS. | ||
| Aberdeen and Temair, M. | Hailsham, V. | Fairfax of Cameron, L. [Teller.] |
| Cholmondeley, M. | Maugham, V. | |
| Reading, M. | Portal, V. | Gifford, L. |
| Salisbury, M. | Ridley, V. | Gisborough, L. |
| Willingdon, M. | Samuel, V. | Grenfell, L. |
| Simon, V. | Hawke, L. | |
| Beatty, E. | Swinton, V. | Hazlerigg, L. |
| De La Warr, E. | Swinton, V. | Kenilworth, L. |
| Fortescue, E. [Teller.] | Addington, L. | Kinnaird, L. |
| Grey, E. | Ashton of Hyde, L. | Lyle of Westhourne, L. |
| Howe, E. | Barnby, L. | O'Hagan, L. |
| Iddesleigh, E. | Beveridge, L. | Polwarth, L. |
| Lindsay, E. | Bingley, L. | Remnant, L. |
| Lucan, E. | Butler of Mount Juliet, L. (E. Carrick.) | Rennell, L. |
| Munster, E. | Rochdale, L. | |
| Onslow, E. | Cherwell, L. | Soulbury, L. |
| Radnor, E. | Clanwilliam, L. (E. Clanwilliam.) | Teynham, L. |
| Rothes, E. | Tweedsmuir, L. | |
| Selkirk, E. | Courthope, L. | Wardington, L. |
| Craigmyle, L. | Wolverton, L. | |
| Bridgeman, V. | De L'Isle and Dudley, L. | Woolton, L. |
| NOT-CONTENTS. | ||
| Jowitt, V. (L. Chancellor.) | Faringdon, L. | Lucas of Chilworth, L. |
| Addison, V. | Henderson, L. [Teller.] | Marley, L. |
| Kershaw, L. | Morrison, L. | |
| Ammon, L. | Lindsay of Birker, L. | Walkden, L. |
| Chorley, L. [Teller.] |
§ to which the Common; have disagreed, but propose the following Amendment in lieu thereof: Page 66, line 8, leave out "twenty-five." and insert "forty." The noble Lord said: My Lords, I will 13e very brief. I do not propose to repeat all the arguments in favour of an increase in the radius except under one or two of the main headings. We have had a 699 declaration from the Minister in another place that the radius of twenty-five miles was merely a nice sensible proposition, and we made it clear during the Committee stage of the Bill that twenty-five miles is far too short a distance for private enterprise to work efficiently, and that trade and industry would thereby suffer. We pointed out that it would not be possible to send goods in one vehicle even across Greater London, and we also raised the difficulty of the distance between such large towns as Edinburgh and Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester, and so on.
§ There is a much more important and psychological reason for an increase in radius in Clause 52 as proposed by my Amendment, which I ventured to put before you during the Third Reading of the Bill, and that is the importance of a contented and well-organized private transport industry running alongside that of the Commission. Of course, if it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to ensure that the Commission will eventually drive and swamp the private transport industry out of business, it is an entirely different matter. But I feel that that is not the intention of the Government, and we earnestly ask them to accept this very reasonable Amendment which will provide for a contented private transport industry and will allow it to build itself up alongside the Transport Commission. There is an old nautical saying: "Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar?" Perhaps the noble and learned Viscount, the Leader of the House, will take heed of the adage, and accept this Amendment which is put forward in the best interests of transport and of His Majesty's Government. I beg to move.
§
Moved, That the House do not insist on the said Amendment, but propose the following Amendment in lieu thereof:
Page 66, line 8, leave out ("twenty-five") and insert ("forty").—(Lord Teynham.)
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONWe need not repeat our arguments. I am interested to know from the noble Lord that this will lead to a contented and well-organized industry, whereas it is only quite a few days ago that we were told that the necessary figure was "fifty"; now we will achieve the same beneficent result by "forty"; that is very gratifying to know.
700 I need not repeat my arguments and I am sorry that, for the reason that geometry remains the same, it is a radius of forty miles instead of a radius of twenty-five miles, and that is that. But perhaps I might suggest a matter of convenience to your Lordships which is quite in accordance with your usual practice. You have just moved the same Amendment practically in effect to another clause, to which we have objected, and, of course, we retain our objection to this one too, but, rather than subject your Lordships to wandering through the two Lobbies, I hope it will meet your Lordships' convenience if, when this Amendment is moved, we say either "Not-Content" or "Content" and thus avoid a Division—merely to register our dissent or otherwise.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I agree that that would be the most practical arrangement; it would save a great deal of time, with the same result.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONMy Lords, there is not much left on the Order Paper and perhaps this would be a convenient moment at which to adjourn.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYIS it the intention of the Leader of the House that a Division should be taken in the same way as this last one?
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONI had not counted on that.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYIt makes a difference about adjourning or not adjourning now. A Division takes ten minutes or so. If there are two Divisions, that will take us twenty minutes unless the noble Lord is willing to let the Amendment go under protest.
§ VISCOUNT ADDISONI say at once, without anticipating the arguments, that His Majesty's Government are not able to accept either of the Amendments which are before us. I believe that perhaps your Lordships do wish to state a case on them. As far as I am concerned, I am in your hands and, if that is the case, I suggest that the House do adjourn.
§ [The Sitting was suspended at three minutes before seven o'clock and resumed at half past eight.]