HL Deb 27 February 1947 vol 145 cc1070-3

4.8 p.m.

Order of the day for the Third Reading read.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA AND BURMA (LORD PETHICK-LAWRENCE)

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time. I have it in command from His Majesty to acquaint the House that His Majesty, having been informed of the contents of the Exchange Control Bill, is pleased to give his consent, as far as; His Majesty's interest is concerned on behalf of the Crown, that the House may proceed thereon as they shall think fit.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a.—(Lord Pethick-Lawrence.)

On Question, Bill read 3a.

Clause 23:

Payment for exports.

23.—(1) The exportation of goods of any class or description from the United Kingdom to a destination in any such territory as may be prescribed is hereby prohibited except with the permission of the Treasury, unless the Commissioners of Customs and Excise are satisfied—

  1. (a) that payment for the goods has been made to a person resident in the United Kingdom in such manner as may be prescribed in relation to goods of that class 1071 or description exported to a destination in that territory, or is to be so made not later than six months after the date of exportation; and
  2. (b) that the amount of the payment that has been made or is to be made is such as to represent a return for the goods which is in all the circumstances satisfactory in the national interest:

LORD PETHICK-LAWRENCE moved, after subsection (2), to insert the following subsection: (3) Where the Commissioners of Customs and Excise are not satisfied in the case of any goods as to the matters specified in paragraph (b) of the said subsection (1), they shall give their reasons to the person making entry of the goods for export and shall take into consideration any representations made by him. The noble Lord said: My Lords, your Lordships will remember that when we were in Committee on this Bill the noble Lord, Lord Balfour of Inchrye, moved an Amendment which I promised to consider. I have put down on the Order Paper a form of words which I think meets the noble Lord's point and which is substantially the same as his proposal. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 16, line 39, at end, insert the said subsection.—(Lord Pethick-Lawrence.)

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, on behalf of noble Lords on this side of the House, and perhaps on behalf of some on the other side who may have felt the same, I thank the noble Lord for putting down this Amendment, which entirely meets the point we endeavoured to make.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 37:

Other towers of Treasury.

37.—(1) Any permission, consent or authority granted by the Treasury under this Act— (d) may be limited so as to expire on a specified date, unless renewed.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT JOWITT) moved, at the end of subsection (1) (d), to insert: and (e) shall be published in such a way as, in the opinion of the Treasury, to give any person entitled to the benefit of it an adequate opportunity of getting to know of it, unless in their opinion publication is not necessary for that purpose. The noble and learned Viscount said: My Lords, I need say very little about this. My noble friend, Viscount Simon, pointed out that there was a lacuna in the Bill. There are five substantives. There are exemptions, which come within Clause 31, which however are to be exemptions such as may be granted by Order of the Treasury and your Lordships will find that Clause 36 (2) says that Orders are to be laid. There are also directions which are dealt with in Clause 37 (2) (c), and then there are permissions, consents and authorities, for which provision is made in Clause 37 (1). The Bill contemplates that the last-named may be either general or special. As there is no definition of any of these five substantives it is naturally open to the criticism that you might have done something under these powers without notifying the public. The effect of my Amendment is that where those words are going to be relied upon it shall be done by means of such public notice as, in the opinion of the Treasury, is necessary to allow those entitled to the benefit of it an adequate opportunity of learning about it. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 25, line 27, at end, insert the said paragraph.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

VISCOUNT SIMON

My Lords, I am greatly obliged to the noble and learned Viscount, the Lord Chancellor. In the Committee stage I think it was my noble friend, Lord Moyne, who, taking a particular instance, received an assurance that this matter would be looked into. I willingly admit what the noble and learned Viscount has been generous enough not to underline—namely, that the Amendment I put down was drawn in too wide terms. He was perfectly right in pointing out that in some of the cases, at any rata, the Bill as it was then already provided for the point, but I did not think there was any provision in the Bill which would secure that permissions, consents or authorities of a general kind would be published. Manifestly, there, ought to be, both because it is better that people should know what they are and because otherwise great inequality may result. Somebody may know of the position and take advantage of it; others may not know, and may therefore not know where they are. So far as I am concerned, the noble and learned Viscount, the Lord Chancellor, met that perfectly by his present proposal, and I am obliged to him for giving attention to the matter.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, while we are on the subject of publication, may I make a humble suggestion to His Majesty's Government? It is that in addition to giving what one might call the Statutory publication, they should make some attempt to enlighten the public on the subject of exchange control and the reasons for it. I should say that 999 people out of 1,000 in this country have not the foggiest idea what are the reasons for a great many of the directions which they have been given under this Bill. It is only right that as many as possible of the people who are going to be affected by it should know why they are being affected. Perhaps a talk on the B.B.C. by some lucid speaker would be useful.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD PETHICK-LAWRENCE

I beg to move that this Bill do now pass.

Moved, That this Bill do now pass.—(Lord Pethick-Lawrence.)

VISCOUNT SIMON

My Lords, in a couple of sentences, may I be allowed to say, not only on my own behalf but, I think, on behalf of others in this House, that we do still greatly regret—and would like to put on record that we regret—that this Bill takes the form of a permanent measure. I quite understand the arguments, and I am not going over the ground again. On the Committee stage on. Tuesday, February 18, the noble and learned Viscount, The Lord Chancellor, very justly said this: (Hansard, Col. 734): Here we are in … a line of country which I very much regret, as I regret this Bill. Here we are dealing with something in the nature of siege economics. I think that was quite a just observation, and I wish, in a single sentence and in quite moderate terms, to say that some of us greatly regret that a Bill which is based on siege economics should be put into the Statute Book in a permanent form, as though siege economics might last for ever.

Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.