§ 4.25 p.m.
§ Amendments reported (according to Order).
§ Clause 1:
§ Power to give elect to Chicago Convention and regulate air navigation.
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(2) Without prejudice to the generality of the powers conferred by the preceding subsection and without prejudice to any of the provisions of the Navigation Acts, 1920 and 1936, His Majesty may by Order in Council make provision—
(c) for the licensing, inspection and regulation of aerodromes, for access to aerodromes and places whore aircraft have landed, for access to aircraft factories for the purpose of inspecting the work therein carried on and for prohibiting or regulating the use of unlicensed aerodromes;
(d) for prohibiting persons from engaging in or being employed in or in connexion with, air navigation in such capacities as may be specified in the Order except in accordance with provisions in that behalf contained in the Order and for the licensing of those employed at aerodromes in the inspection or supervision of aircraft;
(e) as to the conditions under which aircraft may enter or leave the United Kingdom or go from one part of the United Kingdom to another and, in particular, as to the aerodromes to be used by aircraft arriving in or leaving the United Kingdom;
(h) generally for securing the safety, efficiency and regularity of air navigation and the safety of aircraft and of persons and property carried therein, for preventing aircraft endangering other persons and property and, in particular, for the detention of aircraft;
(q) for exempting from the provisions of the Order or any of them any aircraft or persons or classes of aircraft or persons; and any such Order in Council may make different provision with respect to different classes of aircraft, aerodromes, persons or property and with respect to different circumstances and with respect to different parts of the United Kingdom.
§ LORD NATHAN moved, in subsection (2) (c), to leave out "the" where that word occurs a second time. The noble Lord said: My Lords, you will remember that I gave certain undertakings on the occasion of the Committee stage of the Bill to endeavour to meet certain wishes expressed by noble Lords opposite. I have been careful to study the suggestions made, and I have endeavoured to fulfil the undertakings which I gave. The 467 Amendment I now move is put down on the Order Paper in fulfilment of one of those undertakings. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 32, leave out the second ("the").—(Lord Nathan.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD NATHAN moved, in subsection (2) (c), after "carried on," to insert: "in relation to aircraft or parts thereof." The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move the next Amendment, which is related to the one to which you have just agreed.
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Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 32, at end insert ("in relation to aircraft or parts thereof").—(Lord Nathan.)
§ LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGHMy Lords, we on this side of the House are grateful to the Minister for fulfilling his undertaking, and this particular Amendment completely meets our point.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
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LORD NATHAN moved, in subsection (2) (d), after "or" where that word occurs a second time, to insert:
(except in the maintenance at unlicensed aerodromes of aircraft not used for or in connexion with commercial industrial or other gainful purposes).
The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Amendment is really part of the Amendments to which reference has already been made. The noble Viscount opposite was anxious that there should be certain freedom allowed to those who owned private aircraft—that they should be able to make small repairs, and so on, without necessarily using for that purpose licensed engineers. It is proposed, therefore, that on the unlicensed aerodromes there should be freedom from any such regulations as regards maintenance of aircraft not used in connexion with commercial, industrial or other gainful purposes; in other words, aircraft used for private purposes only. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 36, after ("or") insert ("(except in the maintenance at unlicensed aerodromes of aircraft not used for or in connexion with commercial industrial or other gainful purposes)").—(Lord Nathan.)
§ VISCOUNT SWINTONMy Lords, I am obliged to the Minister for having put down this Amendment, which I think completely meets my point. I would add 468 only one word: the object of the Amendment is to enable the owners of aircraft to maintain them themselves. There is nothing in this Bill, nor could there be, which affects the conditions required for a certificate of airworthiness or the conditions which are laid down in insurance policies for the insurance of an aircraft. In order to obtain a certificate of airworthiness anybody, whether he owns a commercial aircraft or a private aircraft will, of course, have to comply with the conditions laid down by the Board for obtaining it, in the same way as in an ordinary commercial proposition persons desiring to insure their aircraft will have to fulfil the conditions under which the policy is issued. I mention this only because I think it is as well to have it on record that there is nothing here which interferes with the recognized practice of the Air Registration Board or with the ordinary policy and practice of insurance companies. A private owner is not given any new or exceptional rights, nor is he in any way deprived of his rights or his duties with regard to either of those two authorities.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRYI did not catch what the noble Lord said about unlicensed aerodromes.
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, this Amendment refers in its terms to private aircraft on unlicensed aerodromes. It is designed to meet the case of a private aerodrome in a private paddock or cricket field.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, the next Amendment is merely a verbal alteration to an Amendment which I had already accepted in principle from the noble Lord, Lord Balfour of Inchrye. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 40, after ("aerodromes") insert ("licensed under the Order").—(Lord Nathan.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
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LORD NATHAN moved, in subsection (2), to leave out paragraph (e) and to insert:
(e) as to the conditions under which, and in particular the aerodromes to or from which, aircraft entering or leaving the United Kingdom may fly, and as to the conditions under which aircraft may fly from one part of the United Kingdom to another;
469
The noble Lord said: My Lords, the noble Earl, Lord Selkirk, and the noble Lord, Lord Gifford, drew attention to paragraph (e) of subsection (2) of this clause. The noble Earl pointed out that conditions might be imposed on aircraft wishing to go—and I emphasize the word "go"—from one part of the United Kingdom to the other, and said that this might well be limited to flying from one part of the United Kingdom to the other. I accept that view, which is incorporated in this Amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Gifford, drew attention to the fact that the paragraph might perhaps be more logically framed by reversing the order of the phrases, and that has been done. I have tried to meet, and I believe I have met, the views that were expressed. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 42, leave out paragraph (e) and insert the said new paragraph.—(Lord Nathan.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, the object of the next Amendment is to put into the Bill words which it was understood between us would appear in this Bill. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 3, line 7, at end insert ("for any of the purposes specified in this paragraph.")—(Lord Nathan.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD NATHAN moved, in subsection (2), after paragraph (q), to leave ant "and any such Order in Council" and insert: "(3) An Order in Council under this section." The noble Lord said: My Lords, you will remember that some discussion arose on the question of discrimination and that I offered an assurance that there would be no discrimination as between charter, companies and other operators in like circumstances. The noble Lord opposite pressed me to put this undertaking into the Bill and I expressed some doubt as to whether it would be found possible to find apt words for that purpose. A great deal of trouble has been taken to try and make precise what it is difficult to make precise, because the word "discriminate" is not one which is capable of any precise definition. The attempt has been made, 470 in all good faith, to meet the points raised by the noble Viscount and the noble Lord opposite. I trust they will feel that the Amendments appearing on the Order Paper meet the point which they put so clearly and with such force during the Committee stage. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 12, leave out ("and any such Order in Council") and insert ("(3) An Order in Council under this section.")—(Lord Nathan.)
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, the noble Lord said that the word "discriminate" was not capable of definition. That may be true to some extent, but the noble Lord has in these Amendments used that word. What is far more important than the actual words in the Amendments is the spirit which animates them and which reflects the wishes, I believe, of all sides of the House that there should be no discrimination between charter companies and Government corporations when performing a like function. We on this side of the House, defending the last remnants of private enterprise in the world of civil aviation, feel gratified that these private enterprise interests have this additional safeguard, and we thank the Minister.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD NATHANMy Lords, I have already referred to the next Amendment. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 15, at end insert ("but shall, so far as practicable, be so framed as not to discriminate in like circumstances between aircraft registered in the United Kingdom operated on charter terms by one air transport undertaking and such aircraft so operated by another such undertaking.")—(Lord Nathan.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.