HL Deb 16 December 1947 vol 153 cc234-6

2.35 p.m.

LORD LLEWELLIN

My Lords, I beg to ask the first question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The question was as follows:

To ask His Majesty's Government whether the returns from county agricultural committees in regard to the number of additional dwelling-houses required for those employed or to be employed on food production have now been collected, and if so, what number of dwelling-houses are expected to be required for the purpose.]

LORD HENDERSON

My Lords, returns in respect of all the sixty-one administrative counties in England and Wales outside London have been received by the Ministry of Agriculture. The returns relate to the general need over the next few years for houses for additional agricultural workers. In this connexion I would refer the noble Lord to the statement made by my noble friend the Leader of the House in the course of the debate on December 11. What is immediately important is to estimate the number of houses for new agricultural workers to be employed in particular localities next year. To this end the general figures are now being examined district by district by the principal housing officers of the Ministry of Health in consultation with the Land Commissioners of the Ministry of Agriculture.

LORD LLEWELLIN

Cannot the noble Lord, having received the total figures, give us them?

LORD HENDERSON

My Lords, the total figures are not available. They are large returns which have been sent in but they have not been collated and it will take some time to go into them. They are based on parishes and small districts. They have been sent down to the regions to be examined in the light of local circumstances, and in due course those reexamined figures will be in the possession of the Ministry.

LORD LLEWELLIN

May I put one further question? I understood the noble Lord to say that the returns had been received from sixty-one authorities other than the county of London, which can well be disregarded from the point of view of agriculture. Sixty-one authorities have sent in the returns and all I ask in my question is what the total of those returns is, so that we might know the magnitude of the figure that was estimated. In the housing debate I did say that I thought a test of whether the Government regarded the provision of houses for agricultural workers as a really urgent matter would be furnished by the presentation or non-presentation of these returns by the date on which I threatened to put down this question. I gave a week or ten days' notice in order that the Government Departments could deal with it. Unless the noble Lord can give me those figures, I must say that I shall think that the Government are not treating this as the urgent matter it really is.

LORD HENDERSON

I have stated that the Government are treating this as an urgent matter, and they are having the returns examined in the localities by the principal officers concerned. I am not aware of the totals myself; I do not think they have been worked out. I understand that they are without any real significance in their present form, and they have to be examined in the light of local circumstances. That re-examination is taking place.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

May I ask one further question? I understand that these returns have been received from the sixty-one local authorities. Therefore, they have been drawn up with full knowledge of local conditions. Why is it necessary for the Ministry, having got these figures from certain localities, to send them back for further information?

LORD HENDERSON

My Lords, in reply to that supplementary, I understand that one or two sample tests were made of the returns which were sent in. The regions are broken up into small areas running down to parishes. One or two sample tests were made and on the basis of the knowledge of the Ministries it was recognized that the figures were not reliable. Therefore, in order to get reliable figures the regional re-examination is to take place.

THE EARL OF MUNSTER

May I ask the noble Lord this question, as he has the noble Earl, Lord Huntingdon, sitting next to him? The county agricultural committees were specifically asked by the Ministry of Agriculture to arrange to go round each of their counties and find out the number of houses that were required in each of their areas. Cannot those figures be published?

LORD HENDERSON

My Lords, I have explained as firmly and clearly as I can that the figures have not been collated. They are not reliable, and in order to get reliable figures which may be given to your Lordships' House the re-examination is taking place.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

It shows the real value of these forms to which the Government attach so much importance! In any case, I hereby give notice that we shall ask this question immediately the House reassembles and I hope we shall receive some information.