§ 5.17 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF CORK AND ORRERY had given Notice that he would ask His Majesty's Government what is the number of men and women who joined His Majesty's Military Forces from Southern Ireland between September 3, 1939, and August 31, 1945, under the headings R.N., Army, and R.A.F.; and from what sources the figures given are obtained. The noble Earl said: My Lords, the question I am about to put is to ask His Majesty's Government for the number of men and women who joined His Majesty's Imperial Forces from Southern Ireland from September 3, 1939, to August, 1945, under the headings of the Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force, and from what source the figures are obtained. I should like, before putting the question, to disclaim any ulterior object. I want to. get these figures for the information of those who are interested in the subject, because many estimates have been made and they vary from tens of hundreds to hundreds of thousands. It would be a very good thing to get the truth, because there are many who are interested in distorting it. The remark that I want to know from which source the figures come seems to suggest I am suspicious of the Government's answer. It is not that, but if they come from ordinary recruiting sources through 240 lawful offices it must be remembered that there were no recruiting offices in Southern Ireland, and the men had to find their own way across the border into Northern Ireland. A great number of them would undoubtedly have given false names and addresses, particularly those who were deserters from the Irish Army, and others would give accommodation addresses, and they would appear to be recruited from Northern Ireland instead of from the South. Again, there were many hundreds and thousands of Irish labourers over here getting in the harvest, and I am sure they were not the last to go to the recruiting offices. The only real test, I venture to suggest, would be the addresses which they gave for their next of kin in case they fell or were disabled. Those would probably be quite genuine, because they would hardly give false addresses when they would want their own people to benefit. Whatever the figures may be, I am sure all your Lordships will agree that this country owes those men and women a great debt which must be honourably discharged, and I have not the least doubt that the Government intend to discharge it honourably, because their views on that point were given only last month in another place, where it was said that His Majesty's Government took the view that when men had fought with us and stood by us it was against our religion to let them down. I beg to ask the question which stands in my name.
§ 5.19 p.m.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DOMINION AFFAIRS (VISCOUNT ADDISON)My Lords, I have been to a great deal of trouble to obtain the figures asked for by the noble Earl, but as the Prime Minister said in another place, figures in the form precisely asked for in the noble Earl's question are not readily available and some of them could only be obtained by a disproportionate amount of time and labour.
The only figures which can be given in the case of the Navy are based on information supplied as to the address at the time of entry into the Service. Those for the Army and the Royal Air Force are based on information supplied as to place of birth, and in the case of the Army some of the men and women may have enlisted before the war. On these bases the figures are as follows:
§ Royal Navy and Royal Marines.
| Men entered and enlisted between September 3, 1939, and December 31, 1944 | 483 |
| Women enlisted between December 15, 1943, and August 31, 1945 | 34 |
§ Army.
§ Total numbers serving at December 31, 1944: Men—28,645; Women—4,133.
§ R.A.F.
§ Total numbers enlisted at Belfast between January, 1943, and August 31, 1945: Men—9,426; Women—528.
§ As regards such enlistments before January, 1, 1943, no distinction was drawn in the records between Northern Ireland and Eire. These statistics also do not include enlistments in Great Britain of men and women of Eire origin as to which no figures are available.
§ The bases on which the above information is given I agree are not satisfactory, but I am afraid it is not possible to give more accurate figures.
THE EARL OF CORK AND ORRERYMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Viscount for the information which he has just given.