PLANNING AND RECONSTRUCTION. (Hansard, 21 April 1942)

§ LORD ADDISON

My Lords, I intervene for a moment only on behalf of my noble friends, first to express regret that owing to an accident to one of my colleagues on this side of the House, the form of the Motion had to be altered. My noble friends and I decided that our general contribution to the debate on this subject should, therefore, be deferred. I hope with the right reverend Prelate that very soon the Minister will be able to announce the introduction of the necessary legislation. I should like to associate myself with what he said in paying tribute, which was deeply and sincerely felt, I am sure, on all sides, to the enthusiasm and energy of Lord Reith when he held the office which Lord Portal now occupies. Nevertheless, we know what the record of the noble Lord, Lord Portal, is in the work that he did in South Wales and elsewhere, and we look forward—I hope I may say with confidence—to the decision of the Government to press on with this matter without further havering. We have, some of us—perhaps the noble Lord is learning this for the first time—been very disappointed with what has happened in connexion with decisions respecting postwar planning. There were two or three almost unaccountable postponements last year. I hope that the noble Lord will determine that the period of indecision must come to an end, and that we can look forward hopefully to the early introduction of a Bill by himself which will provide him with ample powers. I am sure that if he gets them he will not hesitate to exercise them. Meanwhile, awaiting that introduction which we trust will be very little delayed, my friends and I wish to reserve our contribution to the discussion.

THE MINISTER OF WORKS AND BUILDINGS (LORD PORTAI)

My Lords, this is the first opportunity I have had to address your Lordships' House since I became Minister of Works and Buildings. In my opening remarks I should like to associate myself with Lord Addison's reference to the noble Lord, Lord Latham, who was going to bring forward this Motion. I am sure we all wish Lord Latham a speedy recovery. He will, in the near future, have an opportunity of taking part in a debate in this House, and I realize his wide knowledge of this sub- 668 ject, not only from his well-known public experience, but also from private conversations and the help he has given me during the short time that I have occupied this office. I am also very grateful to the right reverend Prelate for raising this question. It is not the first time he has brought forward a Motion that I have been privileged to answer. I recall that he introduced a Motion on the question of the depressed areas, and I am fully aware of his deep concern with the question on which he has just spoken.

I should like to state that, although there is much to be accomplished and many varied and difficult fields to cover, one must recognize the great amount of work which my predecessor, Lord Reith, put into both the question of planning and also that most difficult task of all, as everybody will realize, the initiation of a great project. I wish to say at the outset i that the statement of Government policy which Lord Reith made at the opening of his statement to your Lordships' House on February 11 stands. A Bill has already been introduced in another place which transfers the powers of the Minister of Health under the Town and Country Planning Act of 1932 as the first step in the creation of a Ministry whose objective will be to secure the right use of the land of the country for all purposes. In planning the use of land it will be the duty of the Ministry to see that the national policy laid down for agriculture, location of industry, transport, etc., is observed and the necessary co-ordination between Departments will be facilitated by the general supervision of the Paymaster-General, whose duties are exactly the same as were those of the Minister without Portfolio.

Further amending legislation was referred to and much has been drafted, but after consultation with Mr. Justice Uth-watt and Lord Justice Scott, who now hope to furnish me with their Reports in the near future, it is considered better to await these Reports and then introduce our Bill. No time should be lost by this postponement. The Government have already announced that they accept the principle of the First Uthwatt Report regarding war-time speculation in land, and though that Report itself stated that legislative action was not at present required, I can assure your Lordships that the importance of dealing with this ques- 669 tion will not be lost sight of as one realizes how vitally it affects all the future of planning in this country. Lord Keith had the advantage of the advice of experts with special experience on his Consultative Panel. Their services will remain available to me. In order to keep myself informed on questions with which we shall have to deal in future legislation, I am arranging that some of the members of the advisory panel who can devote the necessary time will be available week by week to advise and assist me.

The noble Lord, Lord Latham, in the debate in your Lordships' House on February 11, drew attention to the excessive number of planning authorities. I agree entirely with his remarks. If each were to make a separate and independent plan the result would be deplorable, nor in many cases have they the technical personnel available to do so. Considerable reductions have already been made by voluntary combination among local authorities, but it is our policy not only to reduce the number further by joint planning over wide areas but to quicken the speed. Area officers have already been selected to assist in collaboration between the Minister and local authorities and will aid them in their planning work. They will keep local authorities informed of the national considerations which must be taken into account and will keep the Minister informed of the situation in each area. My Parliamentary Secretary for Planning will give his special attention to these areas, and help to stimulate this movement. I cannot agree with an article which I read last week which gives the impression that by the appointment of a Parliamentary Secretary for Planning, the interests of the Minister concerned may be lessened. I consider it should be a question of strength rather than weakness, and I can assure your Lordships from my own personal experience that I am under no illusions that the responsibility lies on the broad shoulders of the Minister himself to make a success or a failure of this great project.

I wish to refer again to remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Latham, with reference to delays in procedure, and it is quite apparent to me that there will have to be a speeding up of procedure under the Town and Country Planning Act. It is clear that no national planning of the use of land would satisfy the country if it 670 did not provide for the preservation of extensive areas of great natural beauty and of the coast line. The question of National Parks and of the protection of our coast from ill-considered building development will be carefully examined and we fully realize the importance of this. I am working in the closest collaboration with my right honourable friend the Paymaster-General on this question as well as on all other questions of mutual interest to us both.

Now I would make a few remarks which I think will interest the right reverend Prelate on the question of the future personnel of planning, which is all-important. There is a question which is closely allied or shall I say goes hand in hand with the question of planning, and one which is bound up with my Ministry of Works and Buildings. Before the war, the building trade of this country was the largest industry in this country and numbered approximately 1,200,000 operatives. Directly the war is over, it will be essential to have this industry organized so as to cope with the vast amount of work with which it will have to deal. Most of the material required is at hand in this country. A very large number of new houses will be required, as well as repairs to many thousands, and we shall require new schools and other buildings. A well-balanced programme will have to be planned. The men to carry out this work will have to be made available very quickly. We are already well advanced in considering what will be required. The question of apprentices being taken into the trade is being thought out, and that of getting the large number of men back both from the Services, and the munition factories, is being gone into. The training of men on demobilization is also an essential factor. We must think out a long-term programme. Your Lordships will realize that this is no easy task, made no easier by the fact that the number of our building operatives is decreasing very fast as men are called up. I think, however, it is only right to tell you that we have men who have come into our Ministry to help us with this vital question and who are giving all their time to working out a practical solution.

This vast and many-sided question which will have to be dealt with embraces matters affecting the Ministry of 671 War Transport, the Board of Trade, the Ministry of Labour, Ministry of Health, Board of Education, Ministry of Agriculture, etc. All these various Ministries are alive to this fact, and they are each preparing and making their contributions to this all-important subject. These will all have to be co-ordinated, and at the present time this is engaging the whole time of my right honourable friend the Paymaster-General. One must remember that the question of the location of industry, around which the future of everything rotates, must at the present time necessarily be difficult to estimate. This is a question on which I had some practical experience before the war—experience as great, perhaps, as that of most people. The question of the location of industry in what were called the "distressed areas" and later the Special Areas engaged my full attention for two or three years. We had to deal with the position of men left behind up in the hills paying rates of 30s. in the pound when industry had moved away from the area. Help was given in the problem of getting light industries back both by the Government and by the noble Lord, Lord Nuffield, and others. We were able to introduce over 200 industries in those areas.

I must admit that I have not so much experience of planning as many members of your Lordships' House, but during the seven weeks I have been in office I have had more assistance offered me in planning than in any other direction. The number of people who have come offering advice makes it terribly difficult for me to keep both my feet on the ground at the same time, but I always try to keep in mind the practical side of the matter and I do not think practical planning need make this country devoid of beauty. A start has been made. I have heard people say that my knowledge of planning is very little, but I have some knowledge of business. I know that any skill one has in managing a business depends very much on taking the right advice and in the seven weeks I have been in office I have been trying to find out who are the right people to give advice and who are the wrong people.

I think your Lordships will agree with me that the most vital industry with which my Ministry is concerned is the building 672 industry. Not only must we make sure that we have our plans ready, but we must make sure that the building industry will be ready to start off when the war is over, because that industry will be one of the most useful agencies in planning in the country. In the past it has been an industry subject to a great deal of unemployment. I have also been associated with the mining industry, which also has had a great mass of unemployment. These industries, which have been subject to much unemployment in the past, will have to be dealt with in a different way after the war. You cannot have men coming out of the Army not knowing from week to week whether they are going to have any work. You cannot expect men to do good work if they are in that position. If men know that they can get work week after week it will give them a feeling of security. If any of your Lordships were in a position when you could only be sure of three days' work you would feel hopeless about the future. Broadly speaking, the policy initiated by my predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Reith, still holds good.

My noble friend Lord Addison very kindly said that he hopes to see me active and getting things done. As a member of His Majesty's Government I shall do my utmost to help with this very important matter of planning, in close collaboration and friendship with my right honourable friend the Paymaster-General. A Bill for the transfer of powers under the Act of 1932 will come before your Lordships' House very shortly and I hope that then my noble friend Lord Latham will have recovered from his accident and be able to be present. He was good enough to postpone his Motion and give me three weeks instead of one week in which to settle down in my office. Meanwhile, I hope that what I have said this afternoon will satisfy your Lordships about the intentions of my Ministry.