HL Deb 23 October 1941 vol 120 cc408-28

VISCOUNT SAMUEL rose to ask His Majesty's Government whether they can make any statement with regard to the shortage of labour and materials for the production of books; and to move for Papers. The noble Viscount said: My Lords, I am well aware that it must seem incongruous, after a debate such as that to which we have listened and after the vigorous and inspiring oration that has been delivered by the noble Lord, the Minister of Supply, that I should invite your attention to what appears at first sight to be so very different a matter as the difficulties that face the production of books at the present lime in this country. Of course, we all fully realize that the direct war effort must take precedence over everything else. One can imagine that the needs of industry such as those with which the noble Lord has been dealing would have so overwhelming a claim that it might be necessary to stop all the printing presses in the country except those devoted to the production of Government publications and perhaps a single broadsheet for the newspapers, to close all the theatres and cinemas and to divert the labour employed there to war industries. But we have not reached that pass, and if we did reach it undoubtedly such a state of affairs would be a hindrance to the war effort itself, for it is necessary to maintain the morale of the nation and to ensure that during these winter months, in the circumstances of the black-out, the nation should not sink into a spirit of lassitude and listlessness. Unrelieved strain and stress is not the best way to secure the maximum of war production.

We have also our Army, vast in numbers, waiting, training. They, too, might conceivably be to some extent demoralized by the continuous monotony and strain of their work. For these reasons it has been recognized by the Government and the public that to continue entertainment for the troops and for the nation, and to continue education for the troops and for the public at large, is also a contribution to the war effort, indirect though it may be. It may appear strange, but it is nevertheless a fact, that in the present conditions of arduous war the British people are reading more books than at any time before. The publishers, with whom I have been in close touch since I put down this Motion, tell me that there is an unprecedented demand for books of all kinds which they are at present unable to satisfy. This is also felt in the public libraries. Your Lordships may have noticed a long correspondence in The Times recently on this question, and one of the letters was written by the Chief Librarian of one of the principal public Libraries in this country, that of Leeds, in which he said: Almost every public library has large orders placed with the booksellers for almost every kind of book, which cannot be supplied. There are also the claims of education and of the schools.

Another of these letters was from the representative of the Cambridge University Press, Mr. Kingsford, who said: Books are directly necessary to the production of munitions and to the training of the Fighting Forces who have to know how to use them. There is an imperative and increasing demand for books for machine workers, for R.A.F. apprentices, for A.T.C. squadrons, for gunners: for books on welding, on aerodynamics, on meteorology, on trigonometry, and the ability of the publishers to supply the demand is inadequate and decreasing. He dwelt also on the inability of a University Press to supply books needed at Universities for the education of the engineers, chemists, physicists, and doctors of the future. With reference to doctors, my noble friend Lord Horder, who much regrets he is unable to be here to-day to speak in support of the cause for which I am pleading, asks me to say on his behalf that there is an urgent need for the release of paper for the purpose of printing books for the doctor, the medical student, the nurse, and the civil defence worker. He gives, as an example, his own knowledge of an excellent book on first aid which is in great demand throughout the country and which, being out of print, cannot be reprinted because the paper cannot be obtained for it. He adds that, even if the paper were forthcoming, what he calls the "chaotic state" of the printing and binding trades is such that there would be a delay of four to six months before the book could be brought into circulation.

We have lately had an important conference, in which some members of your Lordships' House have taken part, organized by the British Association, to promote the fullest use of science in the war effort. Knowledge of science is growing and is widespread throughout the nation, and is contributing immensely to the efficiency of our war effort, but it cannot be maintained unless the necessary books arc forthcoming to feed it. We have made many sacrifices during this war which are obligatory, but the sacrifice of our standards of culture is not one that is indispensable. This war may last for a long time, as we all know. At the outset the Government of that day warned the nation to prepare for three years of war. It may prove to be even longer than that. During that period a new generation is coming forward, boys and girls and young people for whom these years are most precious, and if they are robbed of them, and if their education is rendered insufficient owing to shortage of production of the literature they need, these years can never be recaptured. During the Napoleonic wars, which lasted for a longer time than we need dare to contemplate in this age, if the British people, owing to the necessities of those wars, ever had consented to suspend their literary activity, how great would have been the loss in prose and poetry, in science and learning, to British literature as a whole.

There is a further point of an economic character with regard to the export of books. Everyone knows that to maintain our exports is of immense economic importance in this struggle on account of questions of finance and international exchange, and efforts have been made to supply our export trades with the necessary materials and labour. Now books are a not unimportant export, and as at home, so abroad, the demand for books is even greater in present circumstances than in the normal days of peace. In spite of the loss of all the important European markets, last year the total value of the books produced in this country at wholesale prices was slightly over £10,000,000, and of that more than one-third was for export. £3,500,000 worth of books was in fact exported last year even under war conditions. Some may say, who have not in mind the actual conditions of the trade, that we should make every effort to maintain our export trade in books, even if the home trade were to suffer, but that is impossible. Books are exported only after they have established their sale in this country. Furthermore, they are sold in the Dominions and other countries at lower prices than those charged here; they are in fact a by-product of the home industry, so that it is quite impossible to accept the suggestion that we can concentrate on the export trade of books even if we are to sacrifice the home trade.

But in this question of export the cultural factor is even more important than the economic. The British Council, largely subsidized from public funds, is carrying on an admirable work to spread the knowledge of British civilization in other countries, and, as many of us know from visits to them, their institutes and libraries in different parts of the Empire and in foreign countries are doing most admirable work. It is a somewhat belated effort on behalf of this country. We are a long way behind France and other countries, but this movement is now active and is increasing, and if the books are not available all that effort will be handicapped. The Minister of Information, Mr. Bracken, said in a speech reported only yesterday, that books are our best exports.

These considerations were discussed widely in Parliament and in the country a year ago, when the Government established a Purchase Tax on almost all articles of sale, including books. There arose at once a strong agitation, advancing all the arguments which I have used to-day, for the exemption of books from the tax, and the most reverend Primate the Archbishop led a deputation to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on behalf of book producers and book readers. He received no satisfaction. The Government adopted an attitude of firm refusal. However, public opinion was aroused and expressed itself in Parliament. The Chancellor of the Exchequer changed his view, and in the House of Commons used this language: Above all—and this is a matter to which I attach the greatest importance in the considerations I have had to weigh—there is the undoubted importance to this country of the export trade in books, an importance which springs both from the financial results of that trade and from the necessity of the continued spread of British thoughts and writings throughout the world. He agreed there were other arguments as well, and the outcome was that the Government exempted books from the Purchase Tax.

It may be in the minds of some of your Lordships that after all there is a great deal of production from the publishing houses which is of no high educational or moral value, that there is much sensational fiction and many crime stories which absorb a great deal of paper that could be put to better uses. After all, recreation, as I have said, is necessary in war-time, and as the theatres are maintained, so also the lighter forms of literature have their advantage, but in any case, contrary to what one may think from glancing at the bookstalls at railway stations, this class of literature is only a small fraction of the whole output of the publishing trade. The railway bookstalls naturally cater for this particular class of reading, but they are not in any sense indicative of what the British publishing industry is. I am informed by the Publishers' Association that last year the total number of new books produced in this country was 6,665, a mighty total indeed, and that fiction amounted to only 1,496 or 22 per cent. But the number of the books is not the proper measure by which to judge, for I am told the vast majority of books of fiction have no general sale, or only a very small general sale, and that they are intended mainly for the libraries. The editions which are produced are very small, so that in money value and in paper consumption the production of fiction is much less than the 22 per cent. that the numbers would represent. The bulk of the publishing consists in the reprinting of established works, and these are not light literature of the character that some people may censure.

I trust that your Lordships will agree that there is a case for special consideration for this industry. That being so, what is now the situation in which it finds itself? During these two years of war, the pre-war stocks have been largely exhausted, but in addition those stocks have been greatly depleted by air raids. We all know the disaster that befell Paternoster Row, the centre of the principal publishing houses, and it is estimated by the Publishers' Association that not less than 20,000,000 volumes have been destroyed by enemy action. In those circumstances they find their position exceedingly difficult with the present shortage of materials and of labour. We often hear speeches in praise of wine, but Mr. Bracken, the Minister of Information, has recently been staging the praises of ink. Ink, he said had done much to sustain and improve: the modern social system and it was the staple of freedom, knowledge and entertainment. But ink, however plentiful it might be in its supply, can do nothing without its colleague paper. The publishers, at the beginning of the war, expressed their readiness to economize in their consumption of paper to the extent of 40 per cent., a very large reduction. The demand increased at home and abroad, and their stocks have been largely destroyed. The paper allowed for replacement is only estimated to be 5 per cent. of the paper in the books that have been destroyed, and the 60 per cent. for which they asked has been reduced to 50 per cent. Now they are pressed to reduce it to a lower figure still.

It is urged in support of that reduction that other consumers of paper have been required to reduce their demand to an even greater degree than the publishers. To that, this answer is given. Everything depends in these cases upon what period is chosen as the reference period. Of what 100 is the percentage reduction to be taken? The period to be taken, not unnaturally, was a year before the outbreak of war, from August, 1938, to August, 1939. But the Publishers' Association inform me that that happens to have been a year in which their sales were particularly low. Owing to the political outlook being unsettled the public was not buying books freely, and publishers in general reduced their production of new books and of reprints. Now the reduction that is being effected is on that reduced basic figure and not on a normal figure. Furthermore, the newspapers can, as we all know, contract the amount of paper that they require for each issue of each individual paper, but the book publisher cannot do that. Although it is true that many books would be better if they were somewhat compressed, a good book is an artistic whole and cannot be cut down as The Times, say, or any other newspaper, can cut down the number of the sheets that it uses for its issue. Already, as I have said, the publishers have reduced their consumption by 40 per cent., but they will find it exceedingly difficult to carry on if the further reduction below even 50 per cent. now asked for is enforced.

This is not a question which involves any important measure of shipping space. I could understand, if it were said "You are asking us to forego many cargoes of other commodities for the sake of books and it cannot be done," that that would be a very cogent argument, but that question does not arise in any appreciable degree. Almost all the paper imported into this country is for newspapers and the whole of the book trade is supplied from home sources. There may be a little wood pulp imported for the book trade, but it is very little. It could all be supplied from home materials, including salvage. In any case, I would ask your Lordships to observe this fact which is of great importance. Of the total consumption of paper in this country the book trade requires only 1.5 per cent. That figure, I am assured by the Publishers' Association, has been established beyond question as a maximum. It may be even a little less—1.4 per cent. is the actual figure which is probable—but 98.5 of the paper consumed in this country is for other purposes and only 1.5 per cent. or a little less for books.

The Booksellers' Association is prepared to launch a campaign for the collection of unwanted books and could easily supply their supplementary needs from such a collection. However, it is said that all salvage of paper must be pooled because there is a great demand from other quarters for containers in place of metal containers, and for munitions as well, from the stocks of salvage paper. Nevertheless, it is rather hard on the book trade that they cannot even be conceded some fraction of the salvage paper which they would be able to collect themselves. If that concession could be made it would go some little way to meet their difficulties. Not the least important is the question of binding. Straw-boards for binding are now being reduced to very small supplies. People may say, why not bind books in paper? The reason is that machinery for paper binding is not there. It is being used now to the fullest extent that labour allows, but it would not be possible to replace cloth binding. In any case the trade had lessened the weight of straw-boards used by more than 50 per cent.

The most serious point of all at this moment is the lack of labour in the binderies. That is a complete bottleneck for the output of books. Key men have been reserved in the publishing industry and the publishers recognize the consideration shown by the Grovenment in that matter, but the binding trade is a trade mainly for skilled women workers and they are not reserved. They are leaving the trade in great numbers very rapidly at this moment, in order not to be called up for other trades at the choice of the Government and are going into other occupations which are reserved before they are called up for Government service. The consequence is that in the binderies a large proportion of machinery is now idle, and even when paper is available and books can be printed the binderies cannot cope with the work. One of the principal printers in this country, Mr. Hazell, wrote recently: The result is that all book printers and binders are hopelessly in arrears with their existing contracts and are forced to refuse further orders every day. The position is rapidly deteriorating. That is the case which I present to your Lordships' House and the Government. My speech is not intended to be any attack on the Government, but rather an appeal. I feel that your Lordships must view with grave concern the position which I have outlined and the consequences that must necessarily follow from it.

We have now in power, we believe, an enlightened Government and we trust that they will act in an enlightened way. The annual production of books is, in normal times, in the neighbourhood of 100,000,000 volumes. Each one on the average has several readers and the number of the public catered for is therefore exceedingly vast. This, I submit, should not be regarded as a departmental matter, merely a question for the consideration of the Minister of Supply, raising only industrial and economic questions. It is a question of national policy, particularly now when political warfare is recognized as a very important part of our war effort. This question of books, it is not too much to say, is in a measure a strategic question. Just as last year in the case of the Purchase Tax it was recognized that the matter was not merely financial, so now in this question of the supply of materials and labour it should be recognized that it is not merely industrial and economic. The principle admitted last year in the matter of the Purchase Tax is equally applicable now. If it was recognized then that it was national policy not to check the production of books by taxation, so it should be recognized now that it should be national policy not to check the production of books more disastrously and completely by the withholding of material and labour.

We should concentrate on the war, it is said. Yes, but what are we fighting for in this war? What is this Britain, this Commonwealth, for which we are making such sacrifices? It is not a question only of material things, of our homes and cities—we are willing to sacrifice them. Nor is it only a question of our lives, for we are willing to sacrifice those too. What we are fighting for ultimately are our interests, our institutions, our way of life and our civilization—faulty it is, but we believe in process of becoming better. We are fighting for intellectual and spiritual things that we value. It would be a tragedy if, in the course of the struggle, these were to be trodden under foot. I beg to move.

THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY

My Lords, I should like for a few moments to support the noble Viscount in what he has said. I am only sorry that it has not been possible for a larger number of your Lordships to have listened to his very clear, full, eloquent and persuasive speech. I venture to say a word or two because, as he indicated, I had the honour some time ago of taking a deputation to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to protest against the imposition of the Purchase Tax on books. As the noble Viscount has said, at the time our arguments were apparently unavailing, but public opinion and the good sense of Parliament insisted that that attitude should be changed and the Purchase Tax was removed. But it is one thing to take away a tax from books, and then to go on to impose such restrictions on material and labour as to make it very difficult for books to be produced at all. The argument in favour of the tax, of course, was that books were to be regarded as a luxury, whereas the argument that prevailed was that books were not a luxury but had a very essential part to play in maintaining the morale and spirit of the nation. I believe that is profoundly true.

I am always saying that we cannot be effectively in this war unless we are prepared sometimes to get outside it and rise above it. We know that many of us get refreshment and strength from watching the ever-changing beauties of nature. Thousands find these things in music. There is nothing more remarkable at the present time than the throngs of people, and particularly of young people, who attend our best concerts. It is still more true of books for they are within the reach of all, and it would be a thousand pities if the supply of books was so restricted that it would be impossible for this means of maintaining the national spirit to be kept up. I think it is true that a great many books are published which many of us think might just as well not be published, and if these restrictions were to result in only the best books surviving, there would be much to be said for them. But it is just not the best books that would survive. The trade of book production is not entirely regulated by a disinterested desire to spread culture. It is a means of livelihood, and the best books—those for which there is, perhaps, the least demand, but the most need—would be just those that would certainly suffer.

It is not to be denied that there is a great deal of waste, but may I be permitted to say that not the least part of that waste appears to be due to the infinity of papers, forms, circulars, pamphlets and so on that are issued by the various Departments of the Government? It is not perhaps unworthy of notice in that connexion that on September 25 there came into force an Order of the Lords of the Treasury the effect of which is to enable His Majesty's Stationery Office to commandeer labour and machinery in any printing or bookbinding works for its own publications. I cannot help venturing to suggest that these publications might be somewhat restricted rather than the issue of books which are of real and great value. I think it is worth noticing, with regard to this matter, the very small number of those who are concerned in the trade of printing, binding and publishing books, compared with the whole population. I think the noble Viscount made that point very strongly. I am sometimes tempted to use, or perhaps to misuse, the famous words of the Prime Minister about the debt which is owed by so many to so few. But the amount of labour and material that could be saved by further restrictions on book production is, I venture to submit, out of all proportion to the national need or to the value of the benefits that are conferred. I will not detain your Lordships further because the noble Viscount has so fully covered the ground. I will content myself with expressing the hope that in considering in the future whether any restriction of the labour and material used for the production of books is necessary the Government will have in mind the need for making provision in these times not only for the bodies but for the minds and spirits of the people if they are to stand the strain of the war.

LORD STRABOLGI

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Addison has asked me to apologize for his absence as he has had to leave the House to fulfil an engagement. He has also asked me to say on behalf of himself and on behalf of those for whom he and I have the honour to speak that we fully support the plea which has been put forward by the noble Viscount and by the most reverend Primate. The noble Viscount and the most reverend Primate have covered the ground so fully that it is really unnecessary for me to say very much. I think that the most striking figure which has been given is that which shows that only 1½ per cent. of the whole consumption of paper is accounted for by the book publishing industry. This figure was given me by my own publisher—a very important publisher—last night. The fact that exports amount to only £3,500,000 must not blind us to the consideration that the value of these exports is not represented only in money. The export of books is of the greatest value in spreading British ideas and British culture. My publisher also pointed out to me—and this point has already been made by the most reverend Primate—that if the restrictions are still further extended it will be the cultural books which will be most likely to suffer, the books which are needed for educational purposes and for assisting in the development of the cultural side of life. A very important matter also is that of children's books. Children must have books; they must read something, and their books must be fresh and topical. The children will suffer if they do not get books. Scientific books, books required by the student, theological works and the like are the books most likely to suffer.

With regard to the practical side of the matter, I am sure it would help tremendously—and I would ask my noble friend opposite who is going to reply to represent this in the proper quarters—if the women engaged in binding, who, as pointed out by the noble Viscount, Lord Samuel, are essential to the industry, could be reserved from calling up. There are not many of them. I am told that that really is most essential, and also that it is very necessary that no more machine-minders should be called up, otherwise there will be a great fall in the output of the publishing trade from which everyone will suffer. The suggestion is that the age in the case of these men should be thirty instead of thirty-five. In the case of the newspaper industry machine-minders are reserved at thirty, but in the case of the book publishing industry the age is thirty-five. If the same concession can be given to the book publishing trade as to the newspapers, I am sure that would be a tremendous help. The point has also been made about the release of straw boards for binding. I think that is quite essential.

There is one other matter with which I would like to deal. I have had sent to me an extract from The Spectator. I regret that I do not often have time to read that paper; I have so much to read these days. But in this extract complaints are made of the paper shortage and of the apparent misuse of paper for really unnecessary purposes. For example it states: Two communications bearing rather curiously on the paper question have reached me from different quarters simultaneously. One encloses a thick package of the familiar birth-control, rejuvenation, female remedies, puffs, dealing with questions on which any sensible man or woman in need of advice would consult a doctor. There appears, as the sender points out, to be paper available all right for this kind of thing. The other letter is from the headmaster of a well-known provincial school, who regrets that he cannot get books—and also, incidentally, copies of the Spectator, which his boys read, or are encouraged to read—but he says that for the first time there are appearing in large quantities in the bookshops cheap editions of books which were previously associated with certain shops in the Charing Cross Road. He writes: A generation is growing up desperately anxious to understand the problems which it is going to face, and which wants information. Every source of information and serious discussion is being cut down. At the same time, there seems to be paper available for an increase of literature which is at least unhealthy. A well-known public man also complains that the publication of a book of importance which he has written is held up until January because of the exhaustion of paper stocks by the publisher, "and yet," he adds, and we all have this experience, "I get the most nonsensical pamphlets sent to me by all the cranks in the country." I expect that your Lordships' wastepaper baskets are, like mine, filled with propaganda documents of all kinds and from all sorts of people, and 90 per cent. of them are quite useless. That is the case for the better treatment of the book trade, and on behalf of my noble friends I make the same appeal to the Government.

VISCOUNT ESHER

My Lords, everyone must agree with the eloquent speech which has been made by the noble Viscount who introduced this Motion, but in all these questions, of course, the problem is the conflict which takes place between the ideal which the noble Viscount put forward and the needs of the Government. Everyone will admit that literature is essential to the nation, and that recreation, in the form of literature, is important. On the other hand, we have the immense demands of the Government for paper and for labour for use in other directions in the war effort. In view of that conflict, we have to be sure that the trade in question has done its best to change itself from a peace economy to a war economy, and I am not quite convinced that the publishers have accomplished as much in that direction as they could.

There are two sides to the problem; the labour question and the paper question. On the labour question, I am not convinced that the publishers have made any effort to introduce amateur labour into the binding section of their business. They will say, of course, that it is an expert and specialized trade; but, as all of us who had any connexion with the General Strike know, these difficult specialized trades can be very quickly learnt by ordinary intelligent people. Several speakers have suggested that machine-minders should be reserved, but, before taking that decision, it is necessary to see whether they cannot be replaced by teaching other people, who are older and not wanted in the war effort, to do the work.

As regards the paper side of the question, the question arises of whether a good many books are not produced, the publication of which might be postponed. I have a book here which is a small quarto of 878 pages, containing an immense amount of paper. It is purely a reference book and, although it is of great interest and value in time of peace, it seems perfectly clear that its production could have been postponed until after the war. It seems to me that before the Publishers' Association condemn the Government for withdrawing paper from them, they should be able to say that they have in existence an organization which prevents books of this kind from being published in war-time. I am not questioning the value of books of this kind; my point is that they use too much paper for it to be worth while printing them in such a crisis as that through which we are passing. It seem to me that if the Publishers' Association had an organization which could prove to the Government that they had endeavoured to put their business on a war basis, they would be in a stronger position to get what they should get—adequate materials for producing essential books during the war. While agreeing entirely with the noble Viscount's case for the production of books, I hope that the Publishers' Association will try to collaborate with the Government in putting the trade on a proper and sound war basis.

LORD ELTON

My Lords, I should like in a few sentences to support the plea made by the noble Viscount, Lord Samuel. He seems to me to have raised one of those subjects which it is very easy, but very dangerous, to overlook in a time of total warfare. After all, in total warfare we measure ourselves, body and mind and spirit, with our enemy, and the fittest, not only in body or wealth but in mind and spirit, is going to survive to shape, possibly for a thousand years, the pattern of the new civilization. That, incidentally, is why, when we read of German vandalism in regard to books, just as when we read of German corruption and cruelty, we should take courage as though the enemy had lost a battle, because it means that he is less fit to survive.

In this grim struggle we are not going to come through in the last resort merely because we have tanks and aeroplanes; we are going to come through because we have courage and ideas and faith and intelligence; and for all those we need books. Books are, in fact, weapons of war. Books project Britain abroad. How many citizens of the United States are now with us because they have read Shakespeare or Dickens or Winston Churchill? Books sustain our spirit. How well I remember as an infantry subaltern in the last war, being somewhat more ready to face what might come because I had Homer and Kipling in my haversack. Books, moreover, perform the humble but very necessary function of giving us a means of escape. The noble Viscount who moved this Motion spoke, I thought, with an unnecessary note of apology when he referred to the humble detective thriller. We cannot all distract ourselves with algebra or theology, as no doubt the noble Viscount can, and it is good for some of us sometimes to be so bent on discovering who left the revolver in the bathroom that we can temporarily forget the formidable realities with which we are beset. It would be a very self-confident as well, I think, as a very self-satisfied individual who claimed that he never needed distraction; and, if there is to be distraction, then the least pretentious book is a much better form of distraction than either alcohol or astrology.

How far do His Majesty's Government realize that, at any rate in the opinion of the Publishers' Association, they are coming within measurable distance of bringing the publishing trade to a standstill? The publishing and printing trades find their workpeople steadily and increasingly diminished. Binding, which is sometimes forgotten, is already so short of labour that any further reduction will mean that it will be no good printing books, because there will not be anybody to bind them. Paper was originally cut down to 60 per cent. of the abnormally bad year ending 31st August, 1939, and then to 50 per cent., and there is now, I believe, a threat of a further cut of an unspecified but considerable extent. Yet still, as His Grace reminded us, the flood-tide of paper swells out from the Government offices. A publisher friend told me the other day that he was convinced that the unnecessary communications which go out to the Home Guard alone would be sufficient to provide material for many tens of thousands of books. In the last 48 hours I myself have received two official communications under separate covers, identical down to the last comma; each of them could have been comfortably contained on one small sheet, and each of them was in fact spread over two large ones.

Admittedly it is a question of priorities. What is troubling some of us is whether the book trade is getting the priorities which it deserves. Do the Government think of books as merely one more type of merchandise? Do the Government think of book production as merely another industry, and an industry which happens not to have very formidable bargaining power? If books are rationed much further—they are already rationed much further than either beer or betting—we shall reach a point where there may be, I think, a real danger of censorship, the publishers coming to realize that their treatment by His Majesty's Government is likely to be more generous if they produce the sort of book of which His Majesty's Government approve. Already the Ministry of Information exercises an inevitable but not, I think, altogether salutory censorship over the British Broadcasting Corporation, and it would be disastrous if any sort of prejudice, whether of the Left or the Right, were to creep into the regulation of the output of books. We have a very courageous and energetic Minister of Information, who only the other day made a speech which showed that he, at any rate, was perfectly alive to the fact that the book is a weapon of war, not only an article of merchandise; and I can only hope, as I am sure your Lordships hope, that the opinions expressed here this afternoon may encourage Mr. Bracken to do his best to persuade his colleagues in the Government not blindly to strike an indispensable weapon out of the nation's hand.

LORD SNELL

My Lords, I can scarcely find it in my heart to detain your Lordships at this hour, and yet the reply of the Government to the discussion which has taken place must be made. The noble Viscount, Lord Samuel, raised a question of general importance, and I wish it were possible to give him all the assurances for which he asked. His Majesty's Government, let me say at once, and with emphasis, are not indifferent to the issues that have been raised, but they have to consider what is possible as well as what is desirable. The noble Viscount, Lord Esher, represented the matter as a conflict between the needs of the Government and the ideal and I have no reason to complain of that interpretation. The question of labour in the production of books has been mentioned, and the Ministry of Labour, speaking about the production of books as apart from binding, about which I have not techical information, advises me that there is no evidence of any serious shortage of labour in the actual production of books, and believes that the industry as a whole has, not experienced any serious difficulty from that cause. The real difficulty is in the matter of the supply of paper.

VISCOUNT SAMUEL

Does that apply to the binding?

LORD SNELL

I have said I have not the technical information about binding. But let me say at this point what I was going to say later, that on the matters connected with binding which have been mentioned here this afternoon those, I am sure, the Department will consider, and see if anything is possible along those lines. If I could pause for a moment to criticize the speech of the noble Viscount, it would be to say that his whole speech neglected the consideration that the material available for printing and so on has been very greatly restricted. Since 1940 we have lacked supplies from Scandinavia and from Finland, and have become more and more dependent on the supply derived from North America. The supply was originally restricted here for book production owing to shipping and currency reasons, but recently there has been a very definite tendency towards restricted supply of paper from abroad, and therefore the Government cannot think paper into existence or desire it to appear. The question is how supplies can be obtained. The result of this restriction is that consumption has had to be reduced, and is now only a quarter of what it was in prewar times So far as boards for binding are concerned, there has been a considerable increase in the demands for boards for essential purposes, such for instance as the repair of air-raid damage, the packing of munitions and so on, and the shortage in this department has been accentuated by a shortage of other packing materials. The consumption, there- fore, has been reduced to 70 per cent. of the pre-war time.

The noble Viscount and other speakers said that books were valuable exports, and quoted figures showing that books to the value of £3,500,000 worth were exported last year. Important though that is, that is not the real value of the export. The export of books represents something perhaps more important. Books are messengers of our culture abroad. As the noble Lord behind me (Lord Elton) said, how much of the good will towards this country is the result of the exportation of the work of our best minds through books! The book trade under present conditions has received more favourable treatment than newspapers and periodicals, for example. These have been reduced to less than a quarter, the book publishers only between 40 and 50 per cent. Then an effort has been made to enable publishers to deal with air-raid damage by allowing a certain amount to repair their losses. The Government regret that they cannot there do all that they would like for the reason that I have given.

In regard to educational books, which have also been dealt with, the Board of Education has had no representations made to it that there is a serious shortage of books for elementary and secondary schools. Another argument has been that the amount of paper required is, by comparison, a small part of the total consumption of paper, and it has been suggested that the less important products of the publisher's art should be curtailed. Reference has been made to "thrillers" and to the flood of pamphlets and other light reading. That may be very important, but let us remember that all other departments have been cut to the bone, and if we were to begin to ask for Government discrimination as to what should be published and what should not be published, we might inaugurate precedents that would be entirely dangerous. On all grounds that should be avoided. The best thing is to leave the publishers to decide.

Reference has also been made to the spate of forms coming from Government Departments. There, too, it has been suggested something might be done. I can recommend that to the Government's consideration, but I do not know what the result will be. The most reverend Primate spoke of this flood of documents and forms to be filled up and signed and so on. I thought he intended to convey to your Lordships that, in order to live in this country for the allotted span of life, you have to fill up these hundreds of different forms, whereas you can have both the Kingdom of Heaven and eternity merely by obeying ten—the Ten Commandments. However, that is a very serious difficulty, and I cannot do other than refer it to the Government's consideration.

I hope your Lordships will not think I am going beyond my official duty if I say a word on my own account on books. All of us regret this restriction in the production of books. They are a source of comfort and strength in hours of gloom and frustration, and in health and sickness, in loneliness and sorrow, they are an ever-present help to us all. Books are the daily bread of the spirit, and my own indebtedness to them is beyond all computation. I shall not delay longer on that theme except just to remind your Lordships that, 297 years ago, Milton in the "Areo-pagitica," the most famous of all his writings, appropriately written in defence of unlicensed printing, said: Books are not absolutely dead things, but do contain a progeny of life in them to be as active as that soul whose progeny they are. I hope your Lordships will forgive that digression from my official duty.

I regret intensely that the need compels the Government to restrict the supply of paper. In the circumstances that exist, and in the present stage of the war, His Majesty's Government regret they are not able to promise a larger allocation for books at the present time. The moment this is possible the position will be reviewed. Meanwhile, something might be done by economies in the use of paper. Publishers might, if they have not already done so, consider the use of thinner paper and narrower margins, and much can also be done in the collection of waste paper. Much has already been done. That, I fear, is all the comfort I can give to the noble Viscount. We can only hope for the day when that sort of restriction will be removed and when books will, once again, provide an unrationed nurture for our times so that we can be justified to the generations that have yet to come.

VISCOUNT SAMUEL

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the spirit of his reply, rather less grateful for the substance. We have had a speech from a literary Dr. Jekyll and an official Mr. Hyde, if my noble friend will allow me to say so. My noble friend, in giving a negative answer with regard to the supply of paper, did not refer to the equally important question of labour, particularly in the binding industry. I trust the whole of the labour question will be again reviewed by the Government. Later on, when circumstances become easier, or if matters of doubt arise as to the margin to be decided, I hope that the discussion in this House and the speeches which have been made, as well as the expressions of opinion by the public, will bear weight. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.

Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.

House adjourned.