HL Deb 23 October 1941 vol 120 cc385-408
LORD ADDISON

had the following Notice on the Paper: To move to resolve, That this House having followed with admiration the heroic resistance of our Russian Ally to German aggression supports His Majesty's Government in the measures that have been adopted as a result of the Anglo-American Mission to Moscow and in any other measures that may be possible in order to render the fullest aid to the dauntless people of Russia.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, for more than three months now we have been witnessing the greatest battle in human history, a battle in which many millions have been applying the instruments of human intelligence to destruction. It is indeed Armageddon. From day to day we have watched with anxiety, hope and growing admiration the struggle of the Russian Armies in the same cause as that in which we ourselves are engaged. I hope, therefore, that this House, the Upper House of the Mother of Parliaments of free peoples, will deem it right: to place on record its deep feeling in this matter and its appreciation of the determination of His Majesty's Government to render all the help they possibly can to our Russian Allies.

May I, at the outset, pay tribute to the noble Lord, the Minister of Supply, on his conduct of the important Mission to Moscow? Perhaps he will tell us something more about it, and I am sure we shall welcome whatever he has to say. But whether he does say anything or not, I think the nation and the world are indebted to him for his conduct of the business, for the promptitude of its conduct and for the practical and definite results to which it clearly gave rise. Apart from this, I surmise that the noble Lord did a good deal to dispel misgivings, misgivings which were no doubt inevitable, and the result of the dispelling of those misgivings may, in time, perhaps, prove to be as important as other results of the Mission.

The noble Lord knows better than any of us, I am sure, what the difficulties are. They are predominantly those of geography; it is geography which determines in great measure how, and how quickly, the help which we can provide will be rendered. I do not propose to enlarge upon those difficulties; they are obvious to any one who is acquainted with the map. Nor do I propose to enlarge upon other possible methods of help. I hope, as I am sure we all do, that, whatever is done, we shall never have a repetition of the ill-supported enterprises which we saw in Norway; and we do not want any more Dunkirks. The plain fact is that we are suffering from a lack of abundant supplies of the best equipment. Your Lordships know that more than once I, with others, both before the war and in its early days, protested in this House that the methods which were being adopted were inadequate. Experience has justified those protests, and we are suffering now from the consequence of that neglect. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, the Minister of Supply, for taking his coat off, and I think that he has induced the nation to do so also. More power to him!

On this subject I think we ought to recall the great debt which all free peoples owe to the Prime Minister for his prompt decision, at the opening of German hostilities on Russia, to give all our aid outright. He faced realities in that half hour, and extinguished a mass of prejudices. The outstanding fact was that another great Power was with us in the struggle, in which we had stood for more than a year alone, against the most efficient and most powerful instrument of savagery which the world has ever seen. Everything else was small beside that fact, and he that is against our enemy is on our side. For my own part, I never had much patience, and have not now, with those who kept repeating their murmurings against the excesses of the Russian Revolution. Never in history has there been a revolution against a gross and corrupt tyranny, such as existed in Russia, without gross and violent excesses; they appear to be inseparable from great upheavals of this kind. But, while we recognize this as a fact of history, how can any man think that the cause of anything which we hold dear is to be served by a Nazi triumph?

We are seeing a very remarkable thing in these days: we are seeing the deliberate destruction of great works of peace and industry, which were objects of national pride, rather than permit them to fall into the hands of the enemy. We are seeing multitudes of people burning their own homes and the things which they cherish as parts of their family life rather than that they should afford shelter or help to the invader. It is, I think, an unsurpassed spectacle of national sacrifice. Moreover, we see coming together in this struggle the British Empire, the United States of America, the Soviet Union and the people of China. It is impossible to foretell the untold possibilities of blessing for mankind in the future that that association might bring about under wise leadership. It makes me wish that I myself had not passed the age of three score years and ten, so that I might have more time before me in which to see something of the fruits of this great effort of freedom-loving nations.

The long-continued and well-disciplined Russian resistance has astonished the world. It is a small thing, perhaps, that it has confounded those pundits amongst us who, in the early days, went squeaking into our ears their misgivings as to how long the Russian resistance would last, but it is a very great thing that it has confounded the German General Staff. It may well be that in consequence Hitler has driven millions of his fellow-countrymen and of his other serfs to suffering and death in the mud and snow and cold of a disolated countryside. However that may be, I would advise your Lordships to give expression to our support of the British Government in maintaining an unflinching resolution to help without stint, by any means and by all means that are possible, the people of Russia, and to pay tribute to those millions of men and women who, battered and bleeding, are defending with dauntless courage the cause of world freedom. I beg to move.

Moved to resolve, That this House having followed with admiration the heroic resistance of our Russian Ally to German aggression supports His Majesty's Government in the measures that have been adopted as a result of the Anglo-I American Mission to Moscow and in any other measures that may be possible in order to render the fullest aid to the dauntless people of Russia.—(Lord Addison.)

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

My Lords, I am sure that I am speaking for all my friends on these Benches in joining the noble Lord, Lord Addison, in the moving tribute which he has paid to the valour and endurance of the Russian people, and in hoping that His Majesty's Government will realize the importance of rendering all possible help to them. I would also join in the thanks which he expressed to the noble Lord, the Minister of Supply, for the manner in which he conducted his important Mission to Moscow. It was indeed a fortunate inspiration of the Prime Minister which made him select the noble Lord to conduct that Mission, and his choice was indeed fully justified. We all feel that among the unprovoked attacks which Germany has made upon one country after another there has been none less provoked than the attack on Russia. It would not have been altogether surprising if the rulers of Russia, engaged in developing a new form of government, had gone very far in endeavouring to abstain from support either of the Axis countries or of the democratic nations who are opposing them. But nothing would have satisfied the insatiable tyrants of Berlin except abject submission, and that Russia was not prepared to give. And the result has been this further war, in which we know that the number of the forces engaged and the resulting carnage have been such as to make the history of famous battles of the past, like Eylau or Gravelotte, seem to be little more than a record of mere skirmishes.

We all knew, or thought we knew, that the Russian people would put up a magnificent defence of their homes, but I think that most of us did not realize what perfection of discipline and of organization they would exhibit in resisting the enemy. There has been no outbreak of panic, and there have been no followers of that Norwegian politician whose unlucky patronymic has added a new word to the language which will be permanently used to describe traitors and cowards of every race and country. The result is the magnificent resistance that we all so greatly admire. I think we can look forward when these events have passed "to some closer understanding' between the Russian people and ourselves. Most of "us have read with admiration the great works of genius by Russian writers, only I am afraid in translation into other languages, and most people have admired the glories of Russian music. That is in the region of imagination. But in the realm of fact many of us, I am sure, have been greatly impressed by the frequent publication of the Russian descriptions of the war and by the Soviet War News, a most excellently produced publication, stating the facts of the campaign with great interest and a fine balance and also including notices of individual courage and resource shown by the Russian fighters, whether generals or privates. That is one instance of the spirit of Russia which, as I have said, I hope will lead to closer connexion between the two nations and more frequent visits backwards and forwards between the citizens of the two countries. I can only repeat the conviction that, however the fortunes of war may turn for the time, the Russian people will continue their gallant resistance, and also the conviction that His Majesty's Government and the whole country—and, I am glad to think also, the United States—will strain every nerve to support the Russian effort in every conceivable way.

THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY

My Lords, the two admirable speeches to which we have just listened leave little to be said in commending a Motion which will receive the wholehearted assent of your Lordships' House. I desire to intervene for a short time only for a special reason. It is that in past years, both in this House and elsewhere, I have protested very strongly against the oppressive tyranny, the cruelties and persecution, which marked at least the earlier stages of the Russian revolution, As the Prime Minister with characteristic frankness said in the very speech in which, with equally characteristic courage and decisiveness, he claimed that henceforth the Russian people and Army must be regarded as our Allies—as he himself admitted, we cannot unsay what we have said.

I think it is true that in recent years the Soviet Government have made many modifications and abandoned some of the mistakes of their earlier régime. Even in the sphere of religion, while, until the outbreak of the war, any public teaching of any form of religion was forbidden, yet the practice of it in worship has been allowed to continue. I am told that in the churches that have been left the crowd of worshippers is greater than ever. The truth is that the instinct of religion which is so deeply implanted in the Russian peasantry has proved to be too strong to be suppressed. Is it not permissible to hope that in view of the marvellous unity, in this present struggle, of the peasantry and of the very religious authorities who were once persecuted, the Soviet Government after the war may be led to a fuller recognition of the principles of religious freedom? It would be quite unreal to think that the Soviet Government have abandoned their fundamental principles, but if we cannot expect that by reason of this new alliance they should change their fundamental principles, neither will they expect that we can change the convictions we once expressed or our feeling about the methods by which these principles were sometimes enforced.

I have said all this—I hope it has not struck a jarring note—partly in the interests of truth and frankness, partly in recognition of the misgivings which are naturally felt by many in this country and still more in the United States of America, but chiefly in order to insist that these criticisms of the past are now, in view of the mighty issues at stake, wholly irrelevant. We are not dealing now with the past but with the present. We are dealing not with any party or economic system, but with the most moving uprising of the whole people. They are proving in the words of Madame de Stael in 1812, when Napoleon was in the position of Hitler, that "this nation possesses resources of national virtue and valour to astonish the world." While we watch almost with bated breath the swaying to and fro of this vast conflict, it is this indomitable spirit which astonishes us. It compels our pride in our new Allies, our admiration of them, our gratitude to them.

Let me add that we are now comrades with the Russian Armies and people, not only in resisting the unscrupulous and reckless ambitions of Hitler, but also in the struggle against a power of evil which is perhaps greater than has ever before appeared in human history. I do not think these words are mere rhetorical exaggeration. I honestly believe them to be true. Has ever such a mass of misery on so vast a scale been inflicted on the human race as that which now oppresses all the nations which have been compelled to come under German rule? We all know that only too well. But I have just received from the Yugoslav Government in this country an appalling account of the atrocities now being committed in their country. It is an account authenticated by the names, not only of the districts where these atrocities have been committed, but by the names of the unhappy victims. I hesitate to quote any instances of the sadistic brutality which is being perpetrated by the German Army, or, I am sorry to say, by their Italian satellites, or by the criminals whom they encourage and abet, but let me mention only two. Last June a priest of the Orthodox Church was tied to a tree, his nose, his ears, his beard with the skin on it were cut off, his eyes were put out, and then, when it was found there was still a spark of life in him, his chest was split open. In another district sixty peasants were shot, thrown into a hole, and when it seemed that some of them were still alive, bombs were thrown among them to finish them off. I am told that up to last August 180,000 men, women, and children had been murdered, and that these murders are still continuing.

I hope your Lordships will forgive this digression. I have made it partly in order to give expression in this House to our sympathy with that brave and tortured people and our admiration of the struggle they are still maintaining, but chiefly in order to enforce the question: What are any differences we may have had with Russia in the past compared to the unity which now binds us together in resisting the armed forces of this intolerably evil spirit? There are some features in Russian Communism which are compatible with the principles of Christianity, but the Nazi spirit is wholly and entirely incompatible with any of these principles, or indeed with the elementary principles of any humane civilization. Is it not monstrous irony that Hitler, for purposes of propaganda, should have posed as the champion of Christianity against Bolshevism?

That is the situation in which we now stand. The battle of Russia is our battle. It is the battle of all the enslaved nations, it is the battle of civilization against a new barbarism. But the test and measure of our admiration of our Russian Allies must, of course, be the help we are able to send them. The Government have pledged themselves to the very utmost they can within the limits of what is possible to send them help. I am sure they will honour that pledge. There are people amongst us, as the noble Lord has told us, with neither knowledge nor responsibility, who clamour for spectacular demonstrations and interventions. These are matters we must leave to those who have both knowledge and responsibility—the Government and the Imperial General Staff. We are confident that they will honour their pledge. Particularly, I think, we hope they will strain every nerve to protect the lines of communication through Iran to the Caucasus, by which, for the most part, our help can reach Russia. The sands of time are running out. Pray God this help in full measure may not be too late, for in this huge world drama, as the Prime Minister described it, in which we are now plunged, we all know what depends in every part of the world upon whether or not Russia stands or falls.

VISCOUNT CECIL OF CHELWOOD

My Lords, you will perhaps allow me to say a few words in support of this Motion, because it is of real importance that our Russian Allies should be convinced that they have the support of the whole people of this country and of practically every section of them. Let me in the first place associate myself very warmly with everything that has been said about the noble Lord (Lord Beaverbrook) who I am glad to know is going to reply on this Motion. We all join with what has been said by my noble friend Lord Addison in admiration of the extraordinarily brilliant way in which the noble Lord carried out his Mission to Russia, and of the many other services he has rendered to us since the outbreak of war.

The particular passage in this Motion about which I should like to say just a word" is the last one: "and in any other measures that may be possible in order to render the fullest aid to the dauntless people of Russia. I am entirely in agreement with that, but it is not for us to indicate what those measures ought to be. None of us, except the Government, has the information, and, at any rate as far as I am concerned, I have no kind of qualification to say what measures are the most appropriate or would be most successful. That we must leave to the Government, and we do leave it with great confidence in view of the action which they have so far taken in this matter. It is important that any idea that there may be some reluctance, in any important part of this nation, to join Russia in defending herself against the utterly unprovoked and indefensible attack on Russia should be dispelled. It is important that the Russians should know, at any rate, that there is no reluctance at all here. Whatever the Government may decide as to the best method of supporting Russia, whether it be by sending munitions or by taking any other action of any sort or kind, I feel confident they will have the most complete support throughout the country for that action. So far as my feeble voice may reach, I trust that I may add to the general chorus which has pronounced in that sense.

It is perhaps particularly important that in this House there should be an expression of that opinion. It is, of course, perfectly well known to every one of your Lordships that, perhaps as much in this House as in any other assembly, there have been in time past critics of the present Government of Russia. I agree most fully with what fell from the Archbishop. I think he said, very truly, that all that is irrelevant. It would be as irrelevant as a discussion as to whether people who are engaged in suppressing an ordinary crime agree in every respect in their moral and religious views. The first thing is to stop the crime, and that is what we are engaged in doing with the assistance of our Russian Allies. We are fighting for a common cause, and we are making a common effort for that common cause. If any one wishes to know what is" the prevailing feeling of the people of this country, he cannot do better than read the speech of General Smuts which is reported in this morning's newspapers. He will see then that General Smuts, once again, as on many previous occasions, has made himself the spokesman of the deepest feelings of the people of this country. It is for these reasons that I support most warmly the Resolution that has been moved by my noble friend. I trust with the noble Marquess that this may be a new chapter in the relations between Russia and ourselves, and that in the future we may be found co-operating in what will be the essential business of our lives, or rather of the lives of our peoples—namely, the re-establishment of peace on a firm and secure basis.

LORD DAVIES

My Lords, I do not propose to take up the time of the House for more than a few moments, because I know that we are all anxious to hear the report of the noble Lord who has just returned from his arduous Mission to Moscow, and who, I understand, is to reply. Whilst we all, I feel sure, support, the Motion which has been moved by my noble friend, I think we must also realize that in some quarters of the country there is a feeling of uneasiness that perhaps we are not doing all that we might possibly do to render help to our Russian Allies in this crisis. In the debate that took place here yesterday the noble Lord, the Leader of the House, deprecated what I think my noble friend Lord Cecil referred to as a spectacular demonstration—some big-scale invasion of the Continent or the dispatch of an expeditionary force. I think we all agree that it is foolish and stupid to press the Government to do anything of that kind. I imagine that the most optimistic and enthusiastic amateur strategist would shrink from any proposal of that sort. But may I venture to suggest that that is really not the point? There are 2,000 miles of coast-line which, we are told, is thinly held by the enemy, and what many of us do not quite understand is why there is not a large-scale operation to raid this coast-line in order to keep the enemy on the run, and to carry out what I believe is described as "tip and run" tactics, the accumulated results of which may be very important.

I remember that in the last war in France, at the end of 1915, our Corps Commander told us that the first thing that would have to be clone would be to raid the enemy front-line trenches, and that process, he said, would go on for several months; afterwards we should be asked to attack certain sectors of the front and hold them, and that was a preliminary to the final assault upon the enemy's line, or what he called "the big push." I gather that that view is held by Lieutenant-General McNaughton, who, speaking the other day to Press representatives, said there was no better located spot than England for offensive action against the coast of Europe from Gibraltar to Spitsbergen. He is not an amateur strategist, and therefore one imagines that this policy can be carried out much more actively than we are allowed to suppose it has been carried out up to now. These raids, of course, may be in progress; we do not know; we are not told. I cannot help feeling that it would stimulate the country, and especially the morale of the Army, if we were told what was actually happening. We hear all sorts of rumours, but do not know whether they are true or not. I cannot help feeling that if we want to promote the offensive spirit we should be told what is actually happening.

Most of us, I think, would agree that we should not be dominated by the Maginot complex, or be obsessed by the fear of invasion, and that such a consideration should not be allowed to paralyse offensive actions by our Armies. The noble Lord, the Leader of the House, yesterday, in the course of debate, said it "would be foolish to denude the country of the Army we need in case of invasion. We all agree with that, but that is not the point. Surely by adopting a far more intensive offensive action we can help to maintain the morale of our Army, especially of those contingents which have "come from overseas. They have come here to fight, and I cannot help feeling that if they were encouraged to carry out these raids, which, after all, would not involve the employment of many ships, if they could keep up offensive raids along the whole coast held by the enemy, it would demoralize the enemy and very much assist the Russians in their heroic struggle.

I am sure we all deprecate discussion of these questions of strategy and tactics because they are apt to give information to the enemy; but a very bad example was set the other day by our Ambassador in the United States. He spoke to some Press representatives on his return to that country, and is reported to have said that everyone in Britain wanted to carry out an invasion of the Continent but that people had the sense to realize that it was no good doing that until it could be done successfully, that they did not want a flash in the pan. Of course we all agree with that, but why should we have broadcast the intentions of the Cabinet apparently to the world? I must say that I think that was most unfortunate and most deplorable. Therefore, I venture to appeal to the Government that they should give us at least some indication of their general policy in this matter, and that they should at least tell us what is happening when offensive action is taken so as to improve the morale, not only of the Army but also of the country, and impress upon our Russian Allies that we are doing everything we can to help them.

THE MINISTER OF SUPPLY (LORD BEAVERBROOK)

My Lords, I cannot be expected to deal with the very interesting points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. He wishes us to condemn our Ambassador for having made some reference to the intentions of the people of Britain in relation to the possible invasion of the Continent, and then forthwith asks the Government to make a declaration in the contrary sense, as far as I can see. However, I am not going to deal with these issues, but I will confine myself to what may be called a report on the Moscow Conference.

I must begin by saying that the Russians have lost a great deal. They have lost much territory and a great deal of industry, and of course it was with the industrial resources of Russia that the Moscow Conference was concerned. First of all they have lost a great deal of coal, but that is not very serious to them because they have plenty of coal resources left. They have lost some iron and steel. That is quite a heavy loss and will have to be taken into account. In heavy engineering the loss has been not quite so severe. Leningrad is the main centre of the heavy engineering industry, so that if Leningrad holds oat the heavy engineering industry can be relied on for some time. In aluminium the loss is more serious. Both the Dnieper Dam and the Volkov Dam are gone. That is where aluminium production was centred, according to what Stalin told me, so that we must expect a considerable drain on our resources if we are to sustain Russia. The textile industry is centred around Moscow, end of course Moscow is now under the fire of the enemy. Therefore the textile industry must suffer to some extent. In Moscow, too, is the principal small arms factory of the Soviet Union. They have lost one important tank factory and also locomotive works at Briansk at which tanks were being made.

These are very serious losses and we must take them into account, but we need not be too depressed about them. We can compare the position of Russia at this moment somewhat to the position of Great Britain in May, 1940, for at that time Great Britain had lost a great portion of the industrial resources of this country. I do not think people realize the extent to which our resources had been damaged. We had lost all our bauxite. Every ton of bauxite imported into this country was brought from countries that have fallen under the Germans, so that the import of it had gone altogether. One-fourth of all the aluminium we imported came from countries that had fallen to the Germans, so that not only had we lost bauxite, the raw material of aluminium, but one-fourth of the aluminium besides. We had lost, I think, three-quarters of all our imports of steel and pig iron. We lost most of our iron ore. Nearly all our imports came from foreign countries occupied by Germany. Half our wood pulp, half our paper and board came from countries from which we were cut off. Our guns and tanks and aeroplanes had been lost in France when France fell. So the position of Great Britain was bad.

How did we face the situation? At once we turned to other countries and reconstructed our imports of industrial materials. I am bound to tell your Lordships, when Ministers are taking credit for what was done, that the driving force came from the Prime Minister. He it was who reconstructed our industrial resources. He it is who should be given the credit for it, for it was due to his energy, and that energy was at that time beyond my experience. He bullied his Ministers, he praised them, he plagued them, he worried them, he drove them incessantly in the direction of the reconstruction of our industrial resources, which indeed was a heavy task. In that dark period of British history the Prime Minister behaved with such vigour and such spirit that I can only say of him when I am giving praise that I expected him to be likened by Lord Addison and others to the leader of the orchestra. But he was not only the leader of the orchestra. He made the instruments, he wrote the music and he told us how to play the instruments. That is the simple situation in relation to the reconstruction of our industrial position. The nation, too, went to work and when you are sometimes inclined to criticise labour in existing conditions I want you to remember how the workers behaved in May, 1940. There was no exertion that labour was not ready to make. Every effort was put forward by men and women who worked all the time, seizing only a few hours for rest, in order that our resources might be built up.

To return to the Russian situation, in many respects it does not differ from that which confronted us in 1940. For my part I believe Russia will be able to reconstruct her industrial resources just as we achieved that result under the leadership of our Prime Minister. The Russians have an advantage over us. There is immense Russian industry out of the range of the enemy. Beyond the Volga and the Urals there are established two principal arsenals and also the largest Russian tractor factory. There is also a vast new steel plant, and a little further to the east there are heavy engineering works far distant from the positions now taken up by the enemy. That group of industries is capable of immense production. The Russians in their industrial resources can be fortified to a great extent. It is there, I believe, that Russia's industries will derive their strength and power for some time to come. But there are other advantages, too, that the Russians possess. They have had plenty of time for the removal of many of their industries. Stalin told me that he carried out a process which he called "leapfrogging." He said that industries had been moved back as the enemy advanced, and moved again as the enemy had made further progress. Now that is not such a difficult task as might be supposed. I know that from personal experience, for I was engaged in the process of dispersal of industry here when our factories were being bombed. Dispersal was not really a difficult task in itself, but it did do damage to production in Britain, and the Russians, in leap-frogging their industries, must have suffered some damage in production for the time being. But later on no doubt they will be able to reconstruct their output and perhaps do as well in the safer territory to which they have moved as they were doing before the German invasion took place.

But to return to the Conference. We went to Russia, we were sent there by the Prime Minister for the purpose of inquiring as to any deficits which were due to the invasion and, if possible, to make good the shortcomings from which Russia was suffering on that account. Immediately after the Prime Minister's speech when Germany invaded Russia, help began to flow to that country and there were continuous shipments of materials and invaluable munitions to Russia from the moment the Prime Minister spoke right up to and including the very day when the Mission arrived in Russia. It was, as I say, a continuous flow. When we presented ourselves at the Kremlin, we asked at once what was it that the Russian Government had suffered in respect of tank output and of aircraft output on account of the German invasion. Stalin told us. He gave us facts as to the production of tanks and aircraft before the invasion, he gave us an account of what had been lost, and a statement of the existing production at that moment when we were there. Forthwith, after some consultation together, the Americans and our Mission promised to Stalin, to Russia, that we would at once restore to them from the supplies in this country and in America, from British and American exports, everything, everything, everything. We would restore; everything that had been lost up to that moment. And let me say at once that what we promised in tanks and aircraft were exactly the figures for which Stalin asked. We promised the full figures, there was no cutting down, no hesitation, no reserve. We simply gave what Stalin asked for in the full measure. Here I have to speak of the Americans. Mr. Harriman, my colleague, was a grand leader, and the Americans were splendid friends to us during the Conference and in all the proceedings connected with it. Mr. Harriman opened up the first meeting with Stalin by declaring that the American assistance to Russia would only become a possibility if Britain would give up American production ear-marked for this country. At once I said that I was authorized by the Prime Minister to say that we would give up such production. But that declaration by Mr. Harriman placed us in a most favourable position for continuing the Conference with Stalin. It placed us in a position where further confidence and additional trust was put in representations which we proceeded to make. When we had dealt with tanks and aeroplanes we then went on to discuss munitions of war—that is to say, the guns, the ammunition, the anti-aircraft guns and the anti-tank guns. And now let me tell you of a remarkable incident. Early in the proceedings I offered to Stalin certain artillery which Britain was in a position to give up. Stalin said that the Russians had a sufficient supply of that type of artillery and he would not require us to send the guns which we offered. That further strengthened confidence between Stalin and ourselves. We saw at once that he was determined to ask for only those supplies that he urgently required, that he was not going to grab for everything, not going to take all that he could get hold of, that he intended to be as restrained and conservative in his demands as possible. So the atmosphere was further improved.

We found that Stalin has an immense knowledge of munitions. Certainly we found that his knowledge was superior to mine at any rate. For instance, he asked for the figures of the horse power of a certain engine. I said "1,000 horse power." He replied: "Oh, no; 1,080." I did not say anything further. I did not make any comment. I knew he was right. He told us a lot about the military front, for he follows the course of the war very closely. He said that the Germans were continually sending up new divisions against him. He said many changes had taken place in German tactical methods. For instance, he said they no longer concentrated their tank units as they had previously been doing, but dispersed them all along and through their infantry units. They made use, he said, of tanks which had been damaged by burying them and building up great ramparts of earth around them and so making strong points of them. From these fortified strong points they sent cut units to invade Russian territory, and if the units were repelled they returned again to the shelter of those positions. He thought this a very unusual and useful military formation, and he said that he was considering methods of dealing with it.

He said that no German tank has yet appeared on the Russian front with three inch or heavier armour. He said that they vary from armour of one to two and a half inches in thickness with only one inch on top. I quote those figures, for they will be interesting to all who are engaged in the production of tanks, or who are concerned in the handling of tanks. Stalin further said that he did not greatly believe in the very large German tanks. He said that the very large German tank was very easily overcome. Then he told us that there was no sign of improvement in the German types of tanks and types of aircraft which are being sent against the Russians as compared with those that had been used against the French last year. He said, however, that both tanks and aircraft had been stepped up in armour and gun-power and that he thought the process would go on for some time. He told us that in his view the war so far was being decided by tanks I said: "Is it not also a war of aircraft?" He said that at present it was essentially a tank war. He went on to say that he believed that the war would eventually be decided by tanks and aeroplanes in co-ordination. With complete co-ordination they would work and move together on a common front. When that was accomplished he thought that the secret of final victory would have been obtained. He went on to tell us how in his view the outcome of the war depends on the motor, and that the country capable of producing the best and the most motors was sure to win it. I could see that Mr. Harriman looked pleased, because, of course, America does produce the most and the best motors.

When we came to the discussion of military equipment, we offered him some armoured carriers. He was quite pleased with the armoured carriers, and seemed to think that they were very useful in war; but he would call them "tankettes." "Tankettes" they became to us from that time forwards. Since I have come back to this country I still call them by that name, and I expect that it is a name which will stick with me. We gave him, of course, anti-tank guns, rifles, anti-aircraft guns and other munitions of war, with plenty of shot and shell. Then we came to raw materials. I found that Stalin took the deepest interest in raw materials. We had the list prepared for him in Russian and in English, so that interpretation was not quite so difficult as it would otherwise have been, and there he was, studying the list of raw materials in Russian, while we watched the attention which he was giving to each item on our English translation. Three times he left the Conference table where we sat. Three times he went to the telephone. Each time he dialled the telephone himself. He did not seem to have to look up any number, he seemed to have some number in his mind, and he got through and prepared to receive some information about raw materials. But we came to the conclusion that he did not need a great deal of information, that he was perfectly equipped as it was with plenty of knowledge of raw materials.

We were able to promise him almost what he asked for and almost what he thought were his requirements in aluminium, copper, lead, zinc, tin, cobalt, brass, rubber, jute, wool, phosphorus, diamonds and shellac. In all these we were able to promise him what he asked, or at any rate something approaching his demands—enough to satisfy him. The Americans promised him oil and petrol from the United States, and their promise was very gratifying, because they simply said that they would give him everything he required, that they would keep his reserves up to a given figure, a figure ample for his purposes. When we made, on your behalf, these promises of these raw materials which we said we would sent to Russia, Stalin was very gratified, and he showed it. I was reminded of the time when our Prime Minister asked the President of the United States for half a million rifles, just at the time of, or just after, the collapse of France. He waited for the answer, and, when he got it, he behaved with just the same feeling of exultation that I saw in Stalin when I promised him his raw materials. Our Prime Minister got not only that half million rifles but another half million also—which I hope may be the experience of Stalin.

We came to the end of our four-day Conference. During those four days Mr.Harriman and I spent with Stalin fifteen hours—a lot of time. My colleagues, in the meanwhile, worked very hard. There were General Macready, Sir Archibald Rowlands and others at the British Embassy and elsewhere, working continuously by day and far into the night, getting together the list of raw materials which we were called on to provide as the shortages of Russia were disclosed to us. The meetings came to an end. The business was through. Stalin had prepared a statement which he handed to us, and we were gratified to see that it was in English. I will read you the concluding paragraphs of this statement, just as he handed it to us:

" The Delegations of the three Powers were animated by the importance of their task to render support to the heroical struggle of the people of the Soviet Union against the piratical Hitlerite Germany, upon the successful struggle against which depends the cause of regaining the liberty and independence of the nations enslaved by the Fascist hordes. The Conference, an active part in which took J. V. Stalin, has successfully accomplished its work, passed important resolutions and manifested the perfect unanimity and close co-operation of the three great Powers in their common efforts to gain the victory over the mortal enemy of all freedom-loving nations."

We were flattered that that should have been handed to us in English.

Stalin, however, was not through with these manifestations. At once he produced the list of raw materials for which I had asked from Russia on behalf of Great Britain—a list of raw materials which I had presented to him quite early in the Conference, and asked him to let us have the necessary supplies. He informed me that with three exceptions he proposed to supply us with all the raw materials for which we asked and in the quantities in which we had asked for deliveries. The raw materials which he agreed to supply were pitch, chrome, ephedrm (that is for asthma), magnesite, potash, potassium, timber, canned salmon. All these he promised: only three for which we asked did he confess that he was unable to give us.

And so, the Conference being at an end, we started on our way home. Do you think the work was over? No! We knew that it was only beginning; we knew that now came the testing hour, when we had to make good our promises and see that what we pledged on your behalf was duly delivered to the Soviet Government. Imagine my joy when, on the ship on the way back, I received a telegram from the Prime Minister which read: We have not lost an hour in making good your undertakings. I have sent the following telegram to Stalin: 'I am glad to learn from Beaverbrook of successful tripartite Conference at Moscow.' Then follows a long list of materials which were being shipped forthwith, and a detailed account of further arrangements for sending more materials. The message concluded: The above programme does not take into account supplies from the United States. I jumped for joy, because the Prime Minister's telegram indicated that everything we promised to Stalin in the month of October was being duly shipped and sent forward even before our return to this country. I can say to you now that I am in a position to declare that we have made available the October quota of all the things promised by us in the agreement signed in Moscow.

The Prime Minister received my telegram on the Saturday. I want to show you the dispatch of which Churchill is capable when his energies are stirred—and they are always stirred! The Prime Minister, as I say, received my telegram on the Saturday. On the Sunday a meeting of Ministers was called and it took place when there were present also Attlee, Alexander, Moore-Brabazon, Leathers, Margesson and Hankey. It was at that Sunday meeting that the decision was taken to deliver the total supplies forthwith, without a moment's delay. The decisions were taken and the goods began to move. The Prime Minister's telegram to Stalin was followed by action, and action of the most determined character. I ought to explain that there are complications in deliveries to Russia. Those complications are entirely concerned with transportation. Transportation is the biggest item which confronts us. The aeroplanes and the tanks are important, but transportation is equally, or even more, important. There again the Prime Minister has taken the most remarkable precautions He has already ordered the necessary locomotives and rolling stock for the re-equipment of the Persian railways, and under the guidance of one of the officials of the Ministry of Supply, Mr. Riddles, the locomotives and the railway carriages are already in process of delivery. But transportation is indeed the problem that we shall always have to keep completely to the forefront.

There you may think that the story ought to end. But it does not. There is still more. Certain raw materials and items had been held over because we were unable to give any answer to the Russians. So meetings were held in London, and as a result of those meetings we have since undertaken to send, or we have already sent, something called silver steel, a special type of steel, phosphorus, machine tools in very large quantity, Army boots, Army cloth. But what is perhaps more important, we have forwarded a considerable quantity of wheat, and that wheat is given out of our own stocks in the Dominion of Canada. We have also shipped or are in the process of shipping—some shipped and some shipping—large quantities of sugar, and the sugar is actually taken from our stocks here in Great Britain. The Minister of Food has given up those stocks of sugar so that the Russians may have some immediate assistance, and that sugar is on the way. Now, I told your Lordships that all of the munitions have been shipped out of the country and here I must pay tribute to my colleague Colonel Moore-Brabazon. Without his assistance in the shipment of aircraft and spares we could not have carried through the October quota.

I turn for a moment to the United States. In the United States, too, the shipments are going forward steadily. I have had a message from Mr. Taylor, the President of the British. Purchasing Commission in Washington. I will read it to you: The United States promises are being fulfilled. That is the brief and simple message. So you see that within the powers of the Governments of Great Britain and of the United States every conceivable thing has been done, every effort has been made, every purpose has been carried through in order to bring assistance and relief to the Russians in their battle. But it would be wrong of me to conceal from you that the burden on our production is very heavy indeed. We have promised to the fullest extent. We have given more, perhaps, than some persons would approve. We have given tanks to such an extent that we must have an increase in output which so far we have not got. That is a burden of the Ministry of Supply. I do not mind it. I have got good men, and a most valuable man at the head of our Tank Department in George Usher, and I expect to be able to carry through a tank programme which will not leave us entirely bare here, although the burden is big. The Moscow Conference has also put a very heavy burden on Colonel Moore-Brabazon. He must increase his aircraft output, and Russia must rely upon him to-day as well as upon the Ministry of Supply.

Now we have to trust the workmen and, do you know, I am not bothered about that a bit. The workmen will give us everything that we require of them. We do not need to be timid or frightened on that account in the very least. Every time they rise to the occasion when the demand is made with good sound common sense behind it. On this occasion there is sound common sense. But I will say this to the working people, that when we promise tanks and aircraft the job does not end there. There is something more than tanks and aircraft to provide. All the accessories which go with tanks and aircraft must be supplied also, and factories should recollect and take into account the accessories, for nearly every factory in the country is involved in providing accessories for tanks and aircraft. So that workers in factories where there does not seem to be the remotest association with tanks or aircraft ought to understand that they are still involved to the very limit in this Russian programme. The aircraft, for instance, must have machine guns, they must have cannons and armour-piercing shells, they must have radio equipment and tyres and undercarriages. The tank must have gear box, clutch, engine, big gun and armour-piercing shell. Every steel plant is involved for the armour plates that are essential for the building of the tank, and forgings that are essential for the building of aircraft. When we send a tank or an aircraft to our own Forces or to the Russians we must send it completely equipped and ready to fight, with the assistance and complete co-operation of practically every factory in the country.

And this task of supply is one that we can fulfil. It is a job that we can carry through. We have plenty of raw materials for the purpose. We are not short of raw materials. In Great Britain, where we were perishing for raw materials eighteen months ago, we now have a surplus of supplies. We have enough machine tools, and that is a new situation in which we have a right to rejoice. We still require replenishment of our machine tools, we still require the continuing flow of new machine tools to take the place of those which are worn out; but all the same, our machine tool plant is adequate for our purposes, provided only that we get some special additional tools from the United States. Of buildings there are many; in some parts of the country there are too many. There are plenty of empty buildings about half completed or three-quarters completed, and we have some hostels which are not occupied, so that I am not worried at all about buildings.

So now, with ample raw material and enough machine tools, plants and buildings for our purposes, it only remains to recruit labour to the fullest extent. That job is in the hands of Mr. Bevin, a Minister in whom I have the greatest confidence and absolute trust, and I am perfectly certain he will carry the task through to the furthest extent. I can give you an assurance that while our burdens are heavy and our tasks are very many, we think—I think at any rate—that they can be fulfilled. With labour as the only shortage night shifts must be started everywhere; they are needed badly. Machine tool output must be continued and increased by the machine tool manufacturers in Great Britain in order to supply the wastage, because we have no right to demand from the United States any very great flow of machine tools in the future. They have Russia to look after and also their own increasing demand, and their own commitments to supply munitions of war to us, and also to the Russians. So I look to the machine tool industry of this country to develop their capacity to a considerable degree, and I have a meeting with them next Tuesday when I intend to make my demands on them in very exact and exacting terms.

Thus we have the picture of the duty of producing the tanks and the aircraft falling heavily upon industry and on the working man. And this I will say to the working man. When you have done your job, when the task is finished and all over, and when you have given us the stock of munitions, when you have made the guns and the aeroplanes and plenty of tanks, you must be prepared to leave the benches and the workshops and take up the weapons you have made to defend our country. That is the demand I would like to make on you, for when the attack comes on Britain—and it will come for a certainty—rest assured the whole population will be involved just as the whole population of Moscow is involved in the defence of that capital now. We must be ready for that invasion from now forward. For when the shadow of this montrous terror in Europe has done Russia down to the extent that the Russian Armies will be fighting always to retain that portion of Russia that is now in their keeping, when their efforts in defence will have somewhat strangled their prospects of an attack upon their enemy, you can be sure the Germans will turn on us. I have faith in Russia. I believe in the Russian defence. But if the enemy is even successful in containing the Russian Armies, in pinning them down to defence, then for a certainty the dark terror will inflict its horrors upon our people.

LORD ADDISON

My Lords, on behalf of other members of the House I should like to express our sincere thanks to the noble Lord for his illuminating, encouraging, and frank statement. I hope the House will approve the Resolution.

On Question, Motion agreed to, nemine dissentiente.