HL Deb 23 May 1940 vol 116 cc411-7

5.12 p.m.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK had given Notice that he would draw the attention of His Majesty's Government to the serious results which have accrued from the Fifth Column activities by Nazi Germany in certain countries and to the inadequacy of the steps that are being taken in this country to control the large number of aliens, both male and female, who might be utilised by Nazi Germany for similar nefarious services; and move for Papers.

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, if I had had any hesitation in putting down this Motion on the Paper, the grave dangers of which we were informed by the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, at the beginning of our proceedings this afternoon, would certainly confirm the action I took in setting it down. This is a Motion which will in no way assist the enemy. In any part of the debate there can be no assistance to the enemy because the whole aim and object of it is to make such arrangements as to prevent information going to the enemy and to prevent help being given to those engaged in this new form of warfare, the parachutists, should they unfortunately descend in this country. We are face to face with a ruthless and unscrupulous enemy who has been training and getting ready for at least the past five years for the great war in which we are now engaged. He has prepared arms, equipment and men and he has also devised a devilish new form of warfare which is commonly called the Fifth Column. It is about this especially that I would like to speak to your Lordships to-day.

Fifth Columnist activities are generally divided into five. First of all, the Nazi Germans make use of the Germans resident in the country which they are attacking; secondly, they introduce German nationals into that country; thirdly, they make use of other aliens who are resident in that country; fourthly, they get into touch, through some form of cajolery or bribery or whatever it may be, with nationals of the country at which they are aiming and induce them to side with them and do things for them which make them traitors to their own country; and fifthly, they have added to this form of warfare the parachutists who are helped by those other four groups which I have described to your Lordships. I do not want to spend much time on this part of my Motion, but it is necessary to refer to the fact that this form of warfare was used first of all in Austria, where a gentleman named Seiss-Inquart helped the Nazis to subjugate his country. In Czecho-Slovakia the Sudeten Germans, through their leader, did the same thing. In Poland, the German minorities helped the Nazis to run through their country in about a fortnight—indeed, as Herr Hitler said, to smash it in a fortnight—and in Danzig and Memel they used the same means.

Then, when the war had been proceeding for some time, the Nazis decided to attack Norway and there they found a gentleman who will be renowned in history for all time as one of the lowest of the low, one of the traitors of the world, Mr. Quisling, and Mr. Quisling's name will go down in future as a name of calumny against whomsoever it may be used. In a very short time they had taken possession of half Norway, and so far as one can see, are likely to remain there for the rest of the war. At the same moment they entered Denmark and made use of the Fifth Column to effect a subjugation which took only a few hours. Then came the turn of Holland and Belgium, and only a few days ago the Dutch Foreign Minister stated in London that the Fifth Columnists who supported the parachutists who landed in Holland consisted largely of Germans resident in the country and of Germans who, in the last ten or twenty years, had been naturalised in the Netherlands. They helped in the rape of that country. I do not believe you can trust one single German to-day. Even as regards France, we were told only a few days ago by the Prime Minister, M. Reynaud, that there had been mistakes—we will put it at that—which had enabled the Germans to pour over bridges which had not been blown up and advance sixty mils into France. There must have been some form of foul play there.

That is the situation which we find in the countries which have been attacked and overrun by Nazi Germany up to date. We cannot say that this is not going to happen in this country. We know that the Germans have got very near to this country, and consequently we should have made all the preparations we could, seeing this going on, to be ready for any similar experiences here. What have we done in this country? I am going to show that what has been accomplished has been done, apparently, with very great reluctance, and only after tremendous pressure has been brought to bear. This is not a time when one can speak in dulcet tones; this is not a time when friendships or old associations must stand in the way. This is a time when we are up against it. Never have we bee a so much up against it as we are at the present time. I venture to assert again that the preparations which are being taken have been taken only with the greatest reluctance and only under the greatest pressure, and I will show you how this has happened.

At the commencement of the war we were told authoritatively that there were 60,000 Germans and Austrians, apart from other persons of foreign nationality, in this country. A very natural step was taken: special tribunals were set up to examine these cases and a comparatively small number of them were interned. Very large numbers were left out without restriction of residence or area. Two or three months elapsed, and then it became known that information was reaching the enemy from this country. A public agitation grew up for stronger action. An unprecedented thing occurred: the Navy found that its operations were being hampered by information conveyed to the enemy from inside this country, and that they were losing ships and lives. This information was especially coming from the shipping ports and their surrounding areas. A naval spokesman demanded that stronger steps should be taken to do away with these occurrences. Of course, after this pressure the Home Office reluctantly consented to set up special tribunals to revise the cases of those who had been kept out. Even that was felt insufficient by the public. The public felt that the Home Secretary ought to take action himself and to decide these matters on his own initiative and responsibility.

Consequently a public agitation arose in the House of Commons, and only after that an Order was issued—that was only three weeks ago—under which all male enemy aliens over the age of sixteen and under the age of sixty, excluding the invalid and infirm, in certain eastern counties of England and Scotland, mark you, my Lords, were to be interned. Further, certain other male aliens of the same ages of whatever nationality, if living in the same areas, were also to be placed under certain restrictions as to reporting themselves to the police and so on. The number of aliens affected by this Order was 3,000 out of 60,000. In addition, 11,000 non-enemy aliens were dealt with under this Order—out of how many I cannot say. Even that was not deemed sufficient, because there was another unprecedented occurrence: the military authorities asked for stronger action to be taken. Last week a further Order was issued, interning in any part of the country all male Germans and Austrians over sixteen and under sixty who were in the B classification—that is, evidently doubtful cases. That involved another 3,000 male enemy cases, of which 2,000 are refugees. Consequently, out of 60,000 there are now 6,000 interned.

That is the story as it stands. I am going to ask the noble Duke who is going to reply to this debate certain questions, and in asking him certain questions I am going to deal with further matters which come within the scope of those questions. I want to ask him first of all why men of sixty and over have been excluded from these Orders. I can conceive that when a number of members of His Majesty's Government read or were told of this Order in the Cabinet, they may have rather resented the implication conveyed in it! It has certainly been resented by a great many people all over the country, and by a great many men of sixty and over who still feel themselves physically and mentally able to do injury to the enemy if they were placed in the same position as these men who are left unhampered in their ways. I wonder what Marshal Pétain would say, who has joined the French Cabinet again at the age of eighty-four, or General Weygand, who has just become head of the French Army at seventy-two. In my own County the County Clerk is very incensed, as he has reached the age of eighty-five and is still doing nine hours' work a day and fishing in his leisure hours. That, surely, is all wrong and ought to be altered as soon as possible.

And why is there a minimum age of sixteen? The noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, has just told us how physically able and fit he was at the age of sixteen to shoot a rifle and take part in the defence of his country. Why is it right that these young people of the age of sixteen and under should be allowed to go free in this country as if they were quite incapable of doing any harm at all? Again, why are only male aliens interned? Are there no female aliens who could do harm? Is it not well known that some of the greatest and most famous spies in the world were of the female sex? Is it not also well known that very often one female spy is better than ten men, or at least equal to ten men? Surely this is an omission which ought to be put right as soon as possible. To-day this country is ridden by domestic servants of alien origin; they are serving in houses all over the country, and many of them are not trustworthy. I suggest to the noble Lord that he should examine that side of the question as well.

Then, why take only the east coast of England and Scotland? Why not the whole country? Enemy parachutists are not going to be bound by the Home Office Regulations; in fact, they are more likely to go where the Home Office Regulations expect them not to go. Is it less likely that they will descend upon Birmingham, Liverpool or Glasgow than, say, upon Newcastle or Edinburgh? Why is it thought that they will descend only on the east coast? I venture to suggest that it is more likely that they will go to the other side of England, where there is greater wealth and greater opportunity.

I can assure your Lordships that there is a demand in every part of the country for action in regard to enemy aliens, both male and female, and that representations are being sent every day to the Home Office, representations with real knowledge behind them but which are set aside or dealt with by a polite, evasive answer. I have here a very interesting case of that nature, and I am authorised to say exactly who is concerned. I am authorised by the Chief Constable of Oxford to say that he is very disquieted by the situation there. There are, I understand, some 477 enemy aliens in Oxford. He has made representations to the Home Secretary as to the unsatisfactory position, but no further steps have been taken. That is a case which cannot be overlooked, and there are other cases all over the country of the same kind. Let us consider what has happened in neutral countries. We are allowing these people, who are grave potential sources of danger in this country, to go at large, and we are doing nothing about it.

Then I should like to know something about non-enemy aliens, both male and female. There has been a recent order about some of them, but there are far more of these people all over the country than have actually been interned. I know very well that many of them are very favourably disposed towards us, but I do know that there are certain people, such as some Italian ice-cream vendors, who are not favourably disposed towards us. I have in mind the case of one in my own county. Very definite evidence came before me with regard to this man, and at my instigation he has been "put out of bounds" so far as troops are concerned. That, however, is all that has been done. I have written to the Chief Constable of the county and I find that he knows all about it, but there is nothing that he can do.

There is a centre in this town called the Austrian Centre. It has been known for several months that that Centre is full of Communists and contains a great many Nazi sympathisers, but nothing is being done about that. Nazi sympathisers and foreign Communists are very much on a par to-day, and if we will not have Austrian Nazi sympathisers in the country we ought not to have Austrian Communists. There are individuals of many other nationalities in this country who have Nazi sympathies. Their cases ought to be reviewed again, and as quickly as possible.

Now I will come to another point. I want to refer to the broadcasting institutions in this country. One of the first institutions which the Nazis sieze when they invade a country is the broadcasting centre, and for obvious reasons. It enables them to give wrong directions to people, to spread false rumours in their own favour and detrimental to local defence and morale.

5.38 p.m.

THE EAKL OF LUCAN

My Lords, I apologise to my noble friend, but I would draw your Lordships' attention to the fact that there is to be a Royal Commission at a quarter to six, and it was arranged that it should not be later than that hour. It would perhaps be convenient, therefore, to break off the debate now and resume it after the Royal Commission.

House adjourned during pleasure.

House resumed.