HL Deb 21 August 1940 vol 117 cc351-4

5.59 p.m.

LORD CLWYD had given Notice of the following question: To ask His Majesty's Government whether they are aware that Norman Maltzahn, a Category C German internee of proved integrity and loyalty to this country, who was interned on 25th June last and released on 13th July last by the Home Office for work in the Forestry Commission, is still being held in an internment camp in Canada, and whether an assurance can be given that his release will be implemented without delay and that he will be returned to this country for the service of the Forestry Commission as arranged.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, in putting the question standing in my name on the Paper, perhaps I may be allowed in one or two sentences to supplement the facts which are indicated in it. First of all, there is no doubt as to the loyalty and the integrity of the internee, Norman Maltzahn, who is mentioned in the question. His mother is British born, and was re-naturalised British on the death of her husband ten years ago. Norman Maltzahn, the internee, settled in this country many years ago, and has for some time been at work in the City. He was anxious to obtain work of national importance, and on June 15 last he approached the Forestry Commission for that purpose. As a result of the examination of his record, his services were accepted. The next date is June 24, when he was informed by the Forestry Commission that arrangements had been made in regard to the location of his work for the Commission, and that it was desirable for him to start work as soon as possible. He went to the Home Office on that day for the purpose of getting his papers through, but owing to the very large number of applicants there on that date he was unable to get this done, and on the morning of the next day, June 25, he was interned. After that there followed a series of occurrences in regard to which I have the fullest information here. I will not weary the House by referring to these details but I may summarise what happened afterwards.

First, every possible effort was made during the ensuing two or three weeks to secure his release; but owing to the confusion, probably inevitable, arising out of the adoption of a general order for the internment of all aliens in the country it was impossible to find out where he was. On July 13, however, a letter was written from the Home Office stating that they had requested the War Office to release this man, and naturally after the receipt of that communication it was anticipated that his release would be only a matter of a few days. Our next date is July 24. In reply to further inquiries made as to his whereabouts a statement was received from the Home Office on that date that his release could not be implemented as the internee was lost. As your Lordships will see, I have assumed in my question that he was deported overseas and that he is now in Canada. What I would like to have explained, if possible, is how it came about, in view of the communication from the Home Office dated July 13 that he was released, that he was sent to Canada—if my anticipation with regard to that is correct. The purpose of my question is to ascertain the facts as to where he now is, and to obtain if possible an assurance that he will be released with as little delay as possible in accordance with the statement on the date mentioned.

A week ago we had an opportunity in this House on a Motion moved by the noble Lord, Lord Newton, of debating this whole question of what took place as a result of the general order for the internment of aliens in this country, and there was, I think, general agreement as to the extent and seriousness of the problem which has arisen in connection with that decision. I fully recognise that we are at war and that it is impossible always to avoid mistakes of this kind. But I would like to press the point, which was put by a number of noble Lords a week ago in this House, that the time has come to deal more expeditiously with the large number of cases of men and women who have been unnecessarily interned through the general order to which I have referred. We are aware of all that has already been done by the Government to expedite the matter—the appointment of the two Committees, for example, and the addition of eight members to the staff of the Aliens Department of the Home Office. I value those decisions, but in view of the very great extent and seriousness of this problem there should be a fuller recognition of the advantage, or rather the necessity, of using further than we have done in the past the services of men of judgment and experience outside the public Departments, who I believe, if those services were made use of, would help materially to expedite the release of these many men who have every right to be free, and whose services would undoubtedly be of value to the State.

6.7 p.m.

LORD WARDINGTON

My Lords, may I ask the noble Duke if in giving his reply he could give your Lordships, who like myself often receive particulars about individual cases, some advice as to how we ought to deal with them. I have in my humble way tried to get some cases dealt with of persons who I was sure, as far as all my information went, did not deserve internment. I have applied to the Home Office and been received with the greatest courtesy; I have been referred to the Asquith Committee, and the Asquith Committee referred me back to the Home Office with equal courtesy; finally I was referred to a Committee I have not heard of before, whose functions and terms of reference I was ignorant about, a Committee presided over by Sir Percy Loraine. But we have all had many appeals from what we believe to be deserving cases, which in the interest of justice ought to be met, and I do not know what the machinery is, what wheels can be set in motion, to see that that injustice, if it can be proved to be injustice, is remedied.

I hope that the noble Duke can help me, and others of your Lordships who are in the same position as myself, in getting a move on, so that these cases can really be dealt with expeditiously. I have one case in mind, which depends on a speedy decision. The man has the highest credentials from all sorts of people in this country, and he has the offer of an educational appointment in America. He has all his papers and everything is in order, but he cannot get his case tried. Unless he is tried within the next week or two, he will lose this opportunity of taking up this appointment, and he is really suffering not only present disadvantage, but great disadvantage in the future.

6.11 p.m.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA AND BURMA (THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE)

My Lords, I am glad to be able to tell the noble Lord opposite that arrangements have been made for Mr. Maltzahn to return to this country as soon as possible and, on his return, for him to be released for employment with the Forestry Commission. It is very unfortunate that this man was sent to Canada at all. He was interned on June 25, and on July 1 the Forestry Commission applied for his release. On July 13—not an unduly long delay—the Home Office decided to release him, and so informed the Forestry Commission. Unfortunately, it was found that on July 3—the Home Office did not know about it, the military being responsible—he had been sent to Canada. That is a most unfortunate thing, but, as I have told the noble Lord, arrangements are being made for his return as soon as facilities are possible, and he will be released on his return.

LORD CLWYD

My Lords, may I, in a sentence, express my thanks to the noble Duke for his reply, and my very great satisfaction at the information he has given?

THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE

With regard to my noble friend behind me (Lord Wardington), as to what steps can be taken in the case he mentioned, the only advice I can give him is to apply to the responsible Department, which is the Home Office. He will realise that, in spite of the increased staff which has been taken on, delays are almost inevitable. My honourable friend the Undersecretary, with whom I deal, has somewhere over 100 letters a day dealing with this awkward question, and delays are, as I say, almost inevitable. That is the only advice I can give to my noble friend—to apply to the Home Office. It is very important he should not apply to me, because it has nothing to do with me at all.