TEACHERS SUPERANNUATION (WAR SERVICE) BILL. (Hansard, 5 September 1939)

§ LORD TEMPLEMORE
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. This Bill amends the enactments relating to the superannuation of teachers in England and Wales with the object of enabling war service to be treated as service for the purposes of those Acts. Pensions and gratuities to teachers are paid out of the Vote of the Board of Education. There is no superannuation fund, but the cost is partly met by appropriating in aid of the Vote the contributions of 5 per cent. of salary paid by teachers in contributory service and the equivalent contributions paid by their employers, the latter, however, being partly reimbursed by means of grant under the Board's grant regulations. To the extent to which war service is treated as contributory service without contributions being paid an extra charge is thrown on the Board's Vote.
The Bill is therefore founded upon a Financial Resolution. I should say at this stage that the extra charge on the Board's Vote entails a corresponding payment to the Education (Scotland) Fund of eleven-eightieths of that charge. I shall shortly be introducing a similar Bill for Scotland but teachers' pensions in Scotland are paid out of the Education (Scotland) Fund and a Financial Resolution is not required for that Bill. The Financial Resolution in respect of the English Bill automatically covers the extra expense for Scotland. I should add that the extra charge on the Exchequer will depend on the number of teachers undertaking war service while in respect of those exempted from the payment of contributions—there are not expected to be very many of these, although the number is necessarily indeterminate—the total amount which falls on the Exchequer may be relatively small. I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2^a. (Lord Templemore.)

LORD STRABOLGI
My Lords, there is no objection in principle to this Bill in any way, but I venture to ask the noble Lord two questions, if I may, upon it. First of all the definition of "war service" is in Clause 11, page 6. It lays down that 'war service' means service, during the period of the present emergency, in any of the naval, military or air forces of the Crown, or any service during that period which the Board consider may properly be treated for the purpose of this Act in the same manner as service in those forces. The question I have to ask is whether that includes, for example, whole-time A.R.P. appointments.
The other question is this. I understand that the Bill really is to allow the arrangements for counting accumulating pension rights to go on though the teachers' educational service is interrupted by war service. There is a rather complicated definition of how they reckon the salaries. From that it would appear that it is intended, though I do not know whether this is right or not, to make up the pay of teachers—that is, their military pay—if they enlist or are serving as Territorials, to the same amount as their pay as teachers. Is that the case? Is that being done in these cases? If so, those are important questions. With regard to the second, I do not want to appear to be in any way obstructing anyone from getting all the money he can, but I think we have to be a little careful. I want to enter this caveat at once. We have to be a little careful that we do not arouse jealousies between different sections of serving personnel in the various Services.
I had occasions to refer to this matter during the original Military Training Bill, when justices' Clerks seemed to be picked out for some special treatment. I do not know whether it was the patronage of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Maugham, or his interest in his profession which caused it. I then drew attention to this apparent picking out of certain classes to get special treatment. As I have said, I think we have to be a little careful so that we do not arouse undesirable jealousies. From what I know of the mood of the people they are looking for equal sacrifices all round.

§ LORD TEMPLEMORE
My Lords, the noble Lord has asked two questions. The 993 first was whether "war service," as defined in Clause 11 included permanent A.R.P. service. The answer is in the affirmative. The noble Lord then asked me if the pay of teachers was going to be made up less their war pay. To that question the answer is that it is a power which the local authorities possess but which they are not compelled to exercise. I think the same point occurs in the Local Government Staffs (War Service) Bill which comes before us to-day.