HL Deb 17 May 1938 vol 109 cc69-71

Order of the Day for receiving the Report of Amendment read.

VISCOUNT GAGE

My Lords, I beg to move that this Report be now received. We gave undertakings to look into various points on the Committee stage, and we have done so. As your Lordships know, the difficulty in trying to amend any of the details of rent restrictions is to find something which would be an improvement on the existing law. My noble friend Lord Bertie of Thame wanted to clarify the position about vacant possession. It is quite true that this has been a very troublesome matter, and I think to some extent it is so still. I can only say that my noble friend the Lord Chancellor, who has had a great deal of experience in these matters, has personally looked into the suggestion made by the noble Viscount, but I am afraid the Government are unable to agree that it would be a practical proposition at the present moment. The noble Lord, Lord Marley, wanted to strengthen the tenant's position and prevent his being overcharged for repairs which the landlord ought to carry out in the ordinary course of events, and I think everybody agreed that that was a very desirable aim; but the dilemma we were in was to find something which would be not merely a restatement of the existing law and which would, on the other hand, avoid bringing about a state of affairs which would really put a premium on the landlord's carrying out the minimum repairs in the cheapest possible way.

Again, we promised to do something to consider whether some modification of the Amendment of the noble Earl, Lord Grey, was possible. I think that possibly it is justifiable, in theory at any rate, to consider a scheme of apportionment, but we are satisfied that in practice it would really not be worth doing. It is true that by charging the tenant 1 or 2 per cent, on improvements the owner could perhaps get a pound or two extra a year, but I think it would be a payment that would be very much resented by the tenant, and I do not think it would appreciably help the owner. If such a charge were made retrospective it would help the owner, but I think it would be extremely unlikely that he would ever be able to extract it from the tenant.

I am not attempting to argue these points in any detail, but I want to assure your Lordships that, although we admit the force of many of the arguments used, our investigations really have not convinced us that any of the proposals made on the Committee stage really merit being added to the Bill. I can only therefore conclude, as I did the other day, by suggesting to those who represent the owners that they should bear their burden, which in the cases mentioned do not seem to me to be really of a very considerable or overwhelming character. I would suggest that they should endeavour to bear them with such fortitude as they can for a few more years, when I think we can be more hopeful than we have been for a long time past that these Acts will come to an end.

Moved, That the Report of Amendment be now received.—(Viscount Gage.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD MAUGHAM)

My Lords, I might add to what the noble Viscount has said that I tried my best to investigate the question whether the actual position could not be further clarified by some Amendment in this Bill. I confess when I first saw the Amendment which the noble Viscount, Lord Bertie, proposed, I thought something of the sort might be inserted in the Bill with advantage, and, if I may say so, I tried my best to get something of the kind agreed to by those in charge of the Bill in another place; but, after correspondence, the Minister of Health told me that in his opinion it would be better on the whole to leave the position as it now stands. I am sorry I was unable to meet the wishes of my noble friend.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME

My Lords, I came quite unprepared to take part in a debate on this occasion, but I should like to express my thanks to my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack and to my noble friend Lord Gage for having considered the points I raised. I am very sorry that even the ingenuity of my noble friend on the Woolsack has not been able to clear away from the law the confusion in which it seems to stand at present.

On Question, Motion agreed to: Amendment reported accordingly.