HL Deb 19 July 1937 vol 106 cc560-1

Clause 7, page 6, line 7, at end insert: ("(2) In any proceedings against a person under this section it shall lie with that person to prove that he has paid wages at not less than the minimum rate.")

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, this Amendment follows the terms of the Agricultural Wages (Regulation) Act of 1924, which applies to England and Wales. It was omitted from the draft Scottish Bill because it casts the onus of proof on the accused person. It has been restored on representations that without it it might be extremely difficult for the prosecution to prove its case, since probably the only documentary evidence of actual rates of wages paid would be in the hands of the employer. I beg to move.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal.)

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, when the Matrimonial Clauses Bill was before your Lordships we had to listen to long dissertations by noble and learned Lords on the iniquity of placing the burden of proof of innocence on the accused, and I hope that those noble and learned Lords who, as Lords of Appeal, are Scottish Judges, and have a locus in this business, will say whether this provision in a Government Bill makes any difference to their view or not. As a matter of practice farmers do not, as a rule, keep receipts for wages, and this will force them to keep such receipts. Moreover, those receipts are often lost. Perhaps some unscrupulous person might even make away with one, and once having lost his receipt, the farmer is entirely in the power of the man he has employed, who may be discontented. In all my memory of reading of cases concerning farm servants in the local Press I can recall no single case where a Sheriff has ever had any actual difficulty in practice in ascertaining what wages had actually been paid to any man, and I do not think that the passage of this Bill will make any greater difficulty than has been found before.

Moreover, it is practically acknowledged by those who have promoted this Bill that the one danger of the Bill is that it may drive a wedge between farmer and farm worker. This Amendment is almost devised for that purpose. Let your Lordships imagine what happens at almost any time. A farm worker sends his child up to the farmer and asks for an advance of £1 on account. The child is going up to get the milk allowance in any case. The farmer sends down and says he cannot give the pound unless the man comes up and writes out a receipt. There you have bad blood made at once, and yet under this Bill, with this Amendment in it, that is precisely the kind of situation that will be brought about time and again. I enter my wages in my account books, but I never exact receipts from my men, and I do not think they would altogether like me if I did. They are intelligent men and some are well educated, and this kind of thing all makes for trouble.

LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL

My Lords, I appreciate the noble Lord's feeling and his interest in this matter. Perhaps I can give him this much assurance. In moving this Amendment in Committee the Lord Advocate made plain that abuse of the provision was very unlikely in Scotland, where the system of public prosecution is universal. It would be the first duty of Crown Counsel in every case to examine carefully the evidence tendered in support of the prosecution, so that the risk of frivolous or vindictive prosecution, such as the noble Lord seems to be afraid of, would, I think, be very small. I hope that will satisfy the noble Lord.

On Question, Motion agreed to.