HL Deb 13 July 1937 vol 106 cc357-61

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Gautley.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly:

[The EARL OF ONSLOW in the Chair].

Clause 1:

Prohibition of films involving or depicting the suffering of animals.

1.—(1) No person shall exhibit any cinematograph film to the public or supply such a film to any person for public exhibition (whether by him or by another person), if in connection with the production of the film any scene was organised or directed in such a way as to involve fie cruel infliction of pain or terror on any animal or the cruel goading of any animal to fury.

(2) In any proceedings brought under this Act in respect of any film the court may, until the contrary is proved, infer from the incidents depicted or purporting to be depicted by the film as exhibited to the public or supplied for public exhibition, as the case may be, that in connection with the production of the film a scene was organised or directed in such a way as to involve the cruel infliction of pain or terror on an animal or the cruel goading of an animal to fury, but it shall be a defence for the defendant to prove either that no scene so organised or directed as aforesaid is represented in the film as exhibited to the public or supplied for public exhibition, as the case may be, or that he neither knew nor had reasonable cause to believe that any scene so represented was so organised or directed.

LORD CAUTLEY had four Amendments on the Paper to make subsection (1) read as follows: No person shall exhibit to the public or supply to any person for public exhibition (whether by him or by another person) any cinematograph film (whether produced in Great Britain or elsewhere), if in connection with the production of the film any scene represented in the film was organised or directed in such a way as to involve the cruel infliction of pain or terror on any animal or the cruel goading of any animal to fury. The noble Lord said: Before dealing with the Amendments seriatim may I say that this Bill received a Second Reading a week ago to-day, and immediately after that, at the request of a representative of the Home Office, a meeting was held between him and the Parliamentary Counsel and the promoters of this Bill. These Amendments were settled at that meeting really at the request of the Home Office. I think the Minister who appears for the Home Office here to-day will confirm me when I state that none of the Amendments alters either the intention or the substance of the Bill in any way whatever. All that they do is to clarify the position of a defendant who can come within its clutches, and, that being so, regarding them, as I do, as merely drafting, I propose to say little or nothing about them, but I am prepared to answer any question that any of your Lordships may wish to put.

I have before me a copy of the new clause that takes the place of the old clause. It appears to be exactly what I have stated. Perhaps I may give one illustration and take the first three Amendments, in lines 6, 7 and 8. If these Amendments are agreed to the clause will read: No person shall exhibit to the public or supply to any person for public exhibition (whether by him or by another person) any cinematograph film (whether produced in Great Britain or elsewhere) … I will stop short there and move the first Amendment in my name. Afterwards I will move the other Amendments.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 6, leave out ("any cinematograph film").—(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY

The next Amendment is to leave out "such a film."

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 7, leave out ("such a film"). —(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY

The next is to insert certain words.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 8, at end insert ("any cinematograph film (whether produced in Great Britain or elsewhere)").—(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY

The next simply adds words which will make the subsection read: if in connection with the production of the film any scene represented in the film "— and then the original words of the clause are retained.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 10, after ("scene") insert ("represented in the film").—(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY moved, in subsection (2), to leave out "until the contrary is proved" and insert "without prejudice to any other mode of proof." The noble Lord said: This is really a drafting Amendment. The original subsection reads: In any proceedings brought under this Act in respect of any film the court may… Then these words are added by the Amendment: without prejudice to any other mode of proof, and you omit the words "until the contrary is proved," so that the subsection goes on "infer from"—and so on. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 14, leave out from ("may") to ("infer") in line 15, and insert ("without prejudice to any other mode of proof"). —(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY moved, in subsection (2), to leave out "the incidents depicted or purporting to be depicted by the." The noble Lord said: Again I will read from the Bill: …infer from the incidents depicted or purporting to be depicted by the film as exhibited to the public or supplied for public exhibition, as the case may be. I propose to leave out the words "the incidents depicted or purporting to be depicted by." With other Amendments this is done purely to clarify the wording.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 15, leave out from ("from") to the first ("the") in line 16.—(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY

I think it will best clarify the position if I read how the clause will go on if the other Amendments which I have on the Paper are agreed to: that a scene represented in the film as so exhibited or supplied was organised or directed in such a way as to involve the cruel infliction of pain or terror on an animal or the cruel goading of an animal to fury, but whether the court draws such an inference or not it shall be a defence for the defendant to prove that he believed and had reasonable cause to believe that no scene so represented was so organised or directed. Really the words in the original Bill are only paraphrased, and some of the Amendments are consequential. The next two are drafting. I beg to move.

Amendments moved—

Page 1, line 18, leave out ("in connection with the production of the film")

Page 1, line 18 after ("scene") insert ("represented in the film as so exhibited or supplied").—(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY

In the next two Amendments I propose to insert "whether the court draws such an inference or not" and to leave out the words "either that no scene so organised or directed as aforesaid is represented in the film as exhibited to the public or supplied for public exhibition, as the case may be, or." As I have explained the Amendments are moved to clarify the subsection.

Amendments moved—

Page 1, line 21, after ("but") insert ("(whether the court draws such an inference or not)")

Page 1, line 22, leave out from ("prove") to ("that") in line 2 on page 2. —(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD CAUTLEY

There are two other drafting Amendments.

Amendments moved—

Page 2, line 2, leave out ("neither knew nor") and insert ("believed, and")

Page 2, line 3, leave out ("any") and insert ("no").—(Lord Cautley.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clause agreed to.