HL Deb 14 April 1937 vol 104 cc931-42

LORD CATTO rose to ask His Majesty's Government what consideration is being given to the question of overseas food supplies in the light of experience in the Great War and the generally known fact that domestic food supplies would not be nearly sufficient to meet the needs of the population of o this country in any emergency.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I rise to speak on this Motion with considerable diffidence and indeed with anxiety. This is the first time I have addressed your Lordships' House and I do so now hoping for your indulgence and even your patience, although I shall endeavour so to condense my argument as to trespass as little as possible upon your Lordships' time. I have been encouraged to address your Lordships this afternoon for two reasons. The first is the grave importance of this question of overseas food supply, which I think is inadequately understood in the country. The second reason is this. I feel that my acceptance of membership of your Lordships' House carries with it not only a duty but a real obligation to take part in your deliberations and when possible, as happens to-day, to speak on questions on which I may have some special or expert knowledge and experience. It so happens that in that anxious and critical period of the Great War in 1917 and 1918, when the question of food supplies assumed such alarming proportions that, in the words of the late Lord Reading, "the issue of the War hung as much upon food as upon men and munitions," I had the privilege to be first a director and later Chairman of the Allied Provisions Export Commission and head of the British Ministry of Food in the United States and in Canada. I hope, therefore, that I may claim with some right the special knowledge and experience to which I have just alluded.

These organisations had the responsibility of buying all kinds of food supplies in the United States and in Canada with the exception of wheat and sugar, which were under Royal Commissions and dealt with by separate organisations. As a matter of fact, however, in that crisis period it was not a shortage of wheat or cereals that made the position so serious; it was a shortage of other essential food supplies and in particular of bacon, ham, lard, frozen beef, cheese, preserved meats, butter and so forth. These were the articles that were in short supply. We know now that what initiated the break-up of the Central Powers was their inability to obtain just these very essential food supplies to which I have alluded. Were I to disclose to you the tonnage and the monetary value of the food suplies which it was essential in that critical period to import into this country, they would, I think, surprise you. Those figures I have here before me in a report which I made at the time and which I hold at the disposal of His Majesty's Government lest the original in the lapse f time has become lost in some Government Department. Even after this lapse of time, however, I think it would not be wise in the public interest to disclose these figures, and it will be sufficient for the purpose of my argument if you will be so kind as to accept my statement that the total was immense and would, I am tire, astonish anyone not fully acquainted with the situation that existed at that time.

Is it not likely—indeed, is it not almost certain—that a similar situation would arise again in the event of an emergency and vast quantities of food supplies would be required from overseas countries? That being so, then is it not probable—indeed, is it not almost certain—that a large proportion of those essential supplies must come from the United States and from Canada, as they did in the Great War? It may be wondered why these two countries in particular assume such special importance. The answer is, firstly, that they are the countries which can quickly make the essential supplies available, and secondly, that the strain and the drain upon shipping in an emergency becomes enormous and it becomes necessary to draw our supplies as much as possible form the nearest sources. The importance of this is emphasised by the fact that, as your Lordships will recollect, quite recently my noble friend Lord Essendon explained to us that the tonnage of British shipping to-day is less than it was in 1914. I shall no doubt be reminded that much may be accomplished by improvement and increase in our domestic resources. I do not underestimate this possibility, and I hope that much will be done and that the increase will be great and permanent. In another place Mr. Lloyd George, with that gift of expression for which he is famous, has referred to what he called the "food front." He was dealing mainly with the urgent need of increasing and improving our domestic food resources, but no one knows better than he does—because he was Prime Minister at the time of crisis to which I have already alluded—that even were this country producing the maximum of domestic supplies it would still be necessary to import large quantities of essential food from overseas.

I hope I have said enough to indicate that even under the most favourable circumstances of home production there must of necessity be large imports, and I also hope I have given you logical reasons why at any rate a large proportion of these imports must come from the United States and from Canada. If that is so, I should like to ask His Majesty's Government what consideration has been given or is being given to this aspect of the country's defences, and whether they are in touch with men who in the Great War dealt with these special food problems at home and overseas; and in particular I should like to ask whether they are in communication with the Government of Canada. For your Lordships will remember that in 1918 the Canada Food Board, under the distinguished chairmanship of a great Canadian, my friend Mr. H. B. Thomson, rendered conspicuous aid to the Allied cause by making available from Canada the maximum of exportable food supplies.

I ask you to remember that food cannot be obtained overseas, or anywhere else, unless there is the wherewithal to pay for it, and that brings me to the problem of finance. It will be within your Lordships' recollection that in the first part of the Great War money to pay for essential supplies of all kinds from the United States was raised through ordinary financial channels by means of loans from the American public. I am happy to say that all those obligations have been met, and met most meticulously, and that to-day they are almost entirely paid off. But in the later purl: of the War other debts were incurred in regard to which the record is not quite so happy. I think that I can best describe the latter as intergovernmental loans. These obligations were incurred after America had entered the War, and at a time when our own credit in the United States had become practically exhausted. It would have been impossible at that juncture to raise further loans from the American public. But the United States Government, without hesitation, opened their purse strings most generously, and put at the disposal of the Allied Governments vast sums of money which were spent in the purchase of food and other essential supplies.

This brings me perilously near to the vexed question of War Debts. But that is delicate ground, entirely outside the scope of this speech, and I have no intention of treading on it. It is necessary, however, to refer to it, because it has a bearing on the financial aspect of the problem I am discussing. Although the credit of this country, to-day, stands high and unchallenged in the money markets of the world, it would not be possible, in an emergency, again to raise money by means of loans from the American public, as was done in the first part of the Great War. The reason is that, as many of your Lordships must be aware, there exists at present an Act of Congress, known as the Johnson Act, which debars Governments in default on inter-governmental War loans to the United States from raising loans of any kind in that country. I would therefore remind His Majesty's Government that did an emergency arise finance must be an urgent problem of overseas food supplies, and especially so far as the United States are concerned. We all hope such emergency will not arise. It is impossible to conceive another outrage on humanity such as that of 1914–1918. But if in the present unsettled state of the world His Majesty's Government consider it necessary to be prepared—I do not deny that, perhaps, preparation is the surest means of commanding respect for peace and the democratic ideals of our people—then I hope that this debate may be useful to the extent of emphasising that in the long chain of the Empire's defences perhaps the most vital link is the nation's food supply.

I have nearly finished. I hope I have fulfilled my promise not to trespass unduly upon your Lordships' time or patience. I have tried, perhaps inadequately, but at any rate with great sincerity, to explain in the light of experience certain aspects of the problems of food supplies that become acute in an emergency. May I conclude with just these words? I do not need to remind you of the spirit and endurance of our people, but there is one trial above all others that must not be put upon them. If the spectre of hunger begins to stalk the land, and the children to cry for food, then indeed the spirit even of a great people will bend and perhaps break. I have told you already that this actually happened in enemy countries in the Great War. We were dangerously near to it ourselves in 1917–1918. God grant we may never again be so near to such a calamity.

THE LORD BISHOP OF NORWICH

My Lords, I am sure that you will agree with me that we have been very fortunate to listen to so well chosen a maiden speech. The noble Lord who has just sat down told us that he had never spoken here before, and that he was unaware of the ways of your Lordships' House. I can only say that he struck me as quite an expert in such matters, and I hope he will never alter his style. The world is getting smaller, and one cannot help paying considerable attention to the last three lines of the Question of the noble Lord. He directs our attention to the home or domestic food supplies, and I do not think that any reply to this Question will be satisfactory which does not, at least to some extent, travel over that ground. Certainly we should be very glad that in recent years we have been able to discuss the home food supplies with far greater sympathy than was possible in years gone by. It is not many years since the townsman and the countryman were ranged on different sides in any question of this sort. Now we are all sympathetic. The townsman is well aware that it is of importance that every possible contribution should be made to our food supplies from domestic sources.

There is one advantage in that, because. I suppose no industry is more ready to help the Government and the State than the great industry of agriculture, which in itself presents a very united front. Owners, masters and men are agreed to do all they can to allow each to make his best offer of service. And if it is true that Death Duties may to some extent prevent our great landlords from doing the best they could, nevertheless their heart is still in the country, and they know that they have our confidence. There can be no question that in that great corn district from which I come, in East Anglia, the wheat quota and the system of payments has been of great advantage to the industry. Nevertheless it is, I think, generally felt that there is not sufficient stability in the whole outlook for the future. Farmers are not able to go forward with certainty, and the chops and changes from which they have suffered have to some extent disheartened them in their work. But of this your Lordships may be quite certain, that in their local patriotism they have a strong desire to do all that they possible can, a id the Government can rely upon their using their resources to the very best of their ability.

Years ago I was a pupil of Mr. Ernest Fretyman, a name which is still a name to conjure with I hope in the country, and certainly in East Anglia. He once wrote: At a very low estimate we could produce £100,000,000 worth of food which we are now importing, and to do that we should require equipment that would absorb a large industrial output. I know that a good deal of water has flowed under London Bridge since then and that the situation is not as simple as it was when he wrote those words. Agreements must be respected. But we ask the question whether they must be renewed in just the same form. Certainly the picture which the noble Lord drew of the possibility of war brings before us the idea that if war comes you upset everything. It will not be a question then of economics or bargaining, it will be a question of life itself, and I believe that v re have to make our plans now with that heavy responsibility lying over us in the future.

I may add before I sit down that if the reply of the Government is such as to stimulate a little further the farming industry in the country we shall all gain something more than the prospect of more f god. I suppose it is only those of us who l[...]ve in the country who know the low ebb which some parts of our farming industry I as reached. There are many things which are not absolutely essential which would have been very much improved if more attention had been given to them. I am thinking of the retention of men: of clearings and drainage systems which give a benefit to the whole countryside; I am thinking of the deterioration in many respects of our rural economy; I am thinking of the way in which we all feel that our rural stock should be kept at its best.

It is not often that attention paid to one item in a national issue carries with it so great advantages in other respects at the same time. People seem to be divided on the question of instruments of destruction and upon some of the plans that provision against war must involve, but no one could raise any objection to a scheme which would be of the greatest importance in war-time and also precious in the time of peace. It is a constructive scheme, and it is a scheme that carries in it the seeds of much good besides the mere provision of food to meet the emergency of war-time. There are many of us who would be grateful if the Government in their reply would tell as a little more about their arrangements for home production, and we bear in mind that when we hear to-day a good deal said about the storage of grain in the country we have a precedent for that from a very long time ago. Joseph was the first person who stored grain, and if you remember, his plan was for storing the home-grown product.

VISCOUNT DEVONPORT

My Lords, I ask your indulgence for one who addresses your Lordships for the first time. I have listened with interest to what the noble Lord opposite has said, and I must say he Las produced a feeling of anxiety in my mind. What in fact are the Government doing in regard to the vital question of food supplies for our people should an emergency arise? I am one of those who support the Government's plan in regard to our Defence Services, and the sooner the Government can tell us that the country and the Empire are safe against a possible aggressor the more relieved I shall feel. But people cannot live on shells and armaments, and there is a very real danger that all this fine effort may be wasted if in time of an emergency our people find themselves faced with starvation. We know that within these islands we cannot produce enough food to feed our people, and therefore we must look, as we know, to oversea supplies for our daily food. I remember very well a day in 1917 when my father, who was Food Controller for a time during the War, told me that at that moment there was not ten days' food supply in the country. Owing to the action of enemy submarines our merchant ships were finding it more and more difficult to reach the ports of Great Britain. I hope the experience gained at that time at such a cost will not be wasted to-day.

It should be remembered that at the time of the War the only serious enemy destructive agents which our merchant ships had to meet were submarines. To-day we must add to that the menace of the air. How far air attack can prevent our merchant ships from reaching these shores remains to be proved when the fatal day arrives, if it ever does arrive, but I venture to think that the difficulties that our merchant fleet will have to meet when an emergency arises to-day or in the future will be far greater than in the days of the War. Therefore it seems to me very necessary that the Government should undertake the collection of supplies of food in these islands against an emergency which, in the present troubled state of Europe, may arise suddenly and without warning. In this connection I hope the Government will consider the modern use of the "can" or, as I would prefer to call it, the tin, in the preservation and storage of food and not confine themselves to cereals, however necessary they may be. We live in anxious days, and I hope the Government will not throw away the experience of the last War but that they will make such provision in time that our people will be able to meet with confidence any aggressor who may challenge us.

LORD TEMPLEMORE

My Lords, at the beginning of my remarks I should like to congratulate the noble Lord who asked this Question and instigated this debate on his very excellent maiden speech, and I should like at the same time to congratulate my noble friend Lord Devonport on the speech which he has just made. I am sure we are very grateful to the two noble Lords, and we hope very much that this will not be the last time by any means that we shall hear them, but that they will often join in our debates in future. The noble Lord who opened this debate made an exceedingly interesting speech based on his experience in the Food Control Department in the late War, and told us a lot of very interesting facts. I should like first of all to deal with his Question as it is on the Paper. When we consider this question of overseas food supplies, we have to consider it under three heads: First of all, the protection of shipping and ports from attacks by sea and air; secondly, the storage of food in time of peace; and thirdly, the supply and distribution of food imports in time of war.

To take these in order, I should say that the responsibility of providing the necessary protection in order that in time of war our merchant shipping can reach our ports in safety rests on the Defence Services acting in close co-operation, and one of the objects of the considerable strengthening of these Services at the present time is to enable this task to be undertaken with greater efficiency. In addition, plans are being or have been prepared for dealing with other aspects of the problem such as the use of alternative ports. It is of course a truism to say that this country cannot be self-supporting and is dependent on imports not only for more than half its foodstuffs but for large quantities of other raw materials. In fact, the noble Lord who initiated the debate and my noble friend Lord Devonport both said so in their speeches. The Government are fully alive to the vital importance of protecting our shipping and ports in time of war. These questions, in so far as they affect food supplies from overseas, are under the continuous examination of the Sub-Committee of the Committee of Imperial Defence which is dealing with the whole question of food supply in time of war. As your Lordships are aware, my right honourable friend the Minister for the Co-ordination of Defence is the Chairman of this Sub-Committee, which includes among its members the professional heads of the Navy and Air Force.

As regards the second of the heads I have mentioned—namely, food storage in time of peace—this is a matter which for many months has been under close examination of His Majesty's Government. As the Minister for the Co-ordination of Defence stated in the House of Commons on January 27 last, His Majesty's Government are fully aware of the advantages of storing foodstuffs for defence purposes as well as of the difficulties with which any such measures are attended, but I regret that it would not be in the public interest to make any statement on this subject at the present moment. I should like to refer—the right reverend Prelate referred to it indirectly in his speech—to certain alarmist rumours which have appeared in the Press about a shortage of food supplies in the United Kingdom. These have apparently been based on a misconception of the facts. Authoritative figures are published in trade papers which show the existence of stocks amounting to a pout ten days' supply. These figures relate, however, only to wheat held in public warehouses at the ports. They take no account of millers' stocks, which are always far larger than stocks in public warehouses. A year ago the stocks of wheat and flour in the country amounted to fully three months' consumption, and there is no reason to believe that the stocks in the hands of the millers to-day are less than they were twelve months ago. It would not, however, be in the public interest to disclose precise figures at the present time, and in the circumstances I hope my noble friend and your I Lordships will excuse me from giving a more definite statement on this aspect of the question.

I turn to the third sub-head, the supply and distribution of food imports in time of war. I have to say that His Majesty's Government have for a long time devoted a great deal of consideration to this problem. So much importance do they attach to securing the uninterrupted supply of foodstuffs to meet the nation's requirements in a time of war that they decided towards the end of last year to establish what is called the Food (Defence Plans) Department of the Board of Trade. The new Department is devoting the whole of its time to these questions and the noble Lord who opened the debate may rest assured that the experience gained in the Great War is being fully utilised. Consultations have already taken place with a number of persons ho were closely associated with the work of the Ministry of Food both at headquarters and elsewhere during the years 1917–20. Others will be brought into consultation in due course, and I am authorised to say that if my noble friend would supply particulars of any persons whom he thinks could with advantage be included in these discussions his suggestions will be greatly welcomed. If he would send to me or, better still, to my right honourable friend the President of the Board of Trade, the names of any such persons, the Minister would be exceedingly pleased to receive them and would pay the greatest attention to them and to any suggestions which the noble Lord may have to make. Several food importers as well as representatives of some of the staple food industries have already given valuable assistance to the Food (Defence Plans) Department. The creation of this Department and the scope of its work may be accepted by your Lordships as evidence that His Majesty's Government fully appreciate the importance of insuring bulk supplies of all vital foodstuffs coming to this country in time of war as well as their control and distribution within the United Kingdom.

Towards the end of his speech the noble Lord, Lord Catto, referred to several financial problems and to the difficulty which I understood him to say we should have in raising money, possibly in the United States and elsewhere, in the event of another war. This is a very complicated and delicate subject, and he will not, I am sure, expect me to touch in any way on such questions as the American Debt or any such matter in this debate. I can only say—and I say it with the full authority of my noble friend behind me (Viscount Halifax) and of the Treasury—that His Majesty's Government fully recognise that finance would play a most important part in regard to food supplies from abroad in any future war, and the noble Lord may rest assured that this important aspect of the matter is not overlooked.

I turn for one moment to the very interesting speech which was made by the right reverend Prelate, the Lord Bishop of Norwich. He asked about home food supplies. I have already, I think, replied to that part of his speech in my answer to my noble friend. I was very pleased] to hear him say that in his opinion the old division between the townsman and the countryman had now come to an end, and that we are now, as it were, thinking together. I was also very pleased as a member of the Government to hear the right reverend Prelate compliment the Government upon, and thank them for, the wheat quota. He asked what was the agricultural policy of the Government. Well, I would rather not enter into details about that now, but certain measures will come before your Lordships' House later on, and I have no doubt my noble friend Lord Feversham will be in a position then to explain to your Lordships the policy of His Majesty's Government. I think I have now answered all the questions as far as I have been able. In conclusion I should like to thank my noble friend again for raising this question, which is of the very highest importance and of the greatest interest not only to your Lordships' House and to another place, but to the whole of the inhabitants of this country. I can only add that if my reply has not been as informative as my noble friend and your Lordships might have liked, it is because, as I think the House will understand, it is really contrary to the public interest to disclose plans which have been made, or are in process of being evolved, by the Cabinet and their advisers.

LORD CATTO

My Lords, may I take the opportunity of thanking the noble Lord who has just spoken and His Majesty's Government for the great courtesy with which they have replied to the Questions that I asked? I am quite satisfied. I realise that many points involved cannot be disclosed, but I do wish to thank my noble friend Lord Templemore for his great courtesy.