HL Deb 20 May 1930 vol 77 cc932-6

Part II.

Provisions as to Members and Proceedings of Drainage Boards.

1. No person shall be qualified for election as a member of a drainage board unless he is either—

  1. (a) absolutely entitled as owner to not less than ten acres of land in respect of which a drainage rate may be levied by the board and situate in the electoral district for which he is a candidate for election; or
  2. (b) a member, officer or servant of some body of persons, corporate or unincorporate, which is such an owner as aforesaid and he has been nominated by that body as a candidate for election:

Provided that no such owner as aforesaid and no such member, officer or servant of a body corporate as aforesaid shall be qualified for election if at the time of the election any drainage rate levied by the board, being rates in respect of which a demand for payment has been made on that person or body not less than one calendar month before the date of the election, have not been duly paid.

11. The Minister may, if he thinks fit, by order authorise the board to repay to the members thereof the whole or any part of any travelling expenses incurred by them in attending meetings of the board.

EARL DE LA WARR moved, in Part II, after paragraph (1) (a), to insert:— (b) the occupier, whether under tenancies of year to year or otherwise of not less than twenty acres of such land as aforesaid; or (c) the owner or occupier of a hereditament which is of the annual value of thirty pounds or upwards and situate in the electoral district for which he is a candidate for election; or The noble Earl said: This is a small Amendment, designed to widen the circle of those who are eligible for election as members of the internal drainage board. As the Schedule reads, only the owners of property are eligible, and this Amendment brings in occupiers of land of not less than 20 acres, or above a certain annual value.

Amendment moved— Page 64, line 2, after ("or") insert the said new paragraphs.—(Earl De La Warr.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

EARL DE LA WARR

The next Amendment deals with the same point.

Amendment moved— Page 64, line 7, after ("owner") insert ("or occupier").—(Earl De La Warr.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

EARL DE LA WARR

The next Amendment is drafting.

Amendment moved— Page 64, line 8, after ("corporate") insert ("or unincorporate").—(Earl De La Warr.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

EARL DE LA WARR moved, in paragraph 11, after the first "board," to insert:— (a) to pay to the chairman of the board by way of remuneration such sum as may be specified in the Order; and (b) The noble Earl said: This is really consequential on a previous Amendment making it possible to pay the chairman of a catchment board. This Amendment will make it possible to pay the chairman of an internal drainage board. It is a purely permissive power. I think the Act which was sponsored by the Government of which the noble Lord opposite, Lord Desborough, was a member, introduced the principle of permissive payment to those 'serving on Government bodies. This, therefore, is not a new principle.

Amendment moved— Page 65, line 24, after ("board") insert the new paragraph.—(Earl De La Warr.)

LORD DESBOROUGH

I have been twenty-one years Chairman of the Thames Conservancy Board, and I have never been paid yet. You can find people to carry out these duties. This Amendment will make the Bill enormously expensive.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

VISCOUNT BERTIE OF THAME moved to add to paragraph 11:— Any member shall, if he is interested in any company with which the Board has or proposes to make any contract, disclose to the Board the fact and nature of his interest, and shall take no part in any deliberation or decision of the Board relating to such contract, and such disclosure shall be forthwith recorded in the minutes of the board. The noble Viscount said: This is the same point that I raised in regard to members of the catchment board, and I hope the noble Lord will accept it in the case of members of the internal drainage board.

Amendment moved— Page 65, line 26, at end insert the said words.—(Viscount Bertie of Thame).

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DESBOROUGH

The noble Earl earlier this evening said that 1,750,000 acres require draining. Of this, only 285,000 acres are under drainage boards, and, therefore, only that comparatively small number of acres have people who are paying drainage rates. In accordance with the Third Schedule, if you do not pay rates you cannot vote. I want to know, therefore, who in the first instance is going to appoint the drainage boards. Do the catchment boards set up the drainage boards when nobody is paying any rates?

EARL DE LA WARR

The catchment board is responsible for setting them up.

Lout DESBOROUGH

But it is not in the Bill.

EARL DE LA WARR

All those who will be liable for rates when the area of the drainage board is set up will have votes.

LORD DESBOROUGH

But it says particularly in this Schedule that nobody can vote who has not paid his rates.

EARL DE LA WARR

That purely refers, let me assure the noble Lord, to those who are in default with their rates—those voters who have votes but who have not paid their rates and thereby sacrifice their votes. That is all that those words are intended to mean. I have had them examined and I can assure the noble Lord that that is the only interpretation that can be put upon them.

LORD DESBOROUGH

Who are the voters? I can understand that the Minister, who used to be very powerful under this Bill, can appoint the members of the boards or do anything he likes; but who are the voters? You can say who are not, but who are the voters in respect of the first boards where there have been no rates to pay. Who elects the first boards? Can a catchment board appoint them of its own free will or can the Minister appoint them? There is nothing whatever in the Bill about who is going to vote for these innumerable drainage boards.

EARL DE LA WARR

On page 62 of the Bill the noble Lord will see this in paragraph (1) of the Third Schedule— The electors for members of a drainage board for any district shall be the persons who have during the year immediately preceding such election been rated to the drainage rate of the district … Surely, that is quite clear—who have been assessed to rates. Then it goes on to say— and have paid all drainage rates due from them at the time of the election. That shows who they are.

Loan DESBOROUGH

But there are no drainage rates until the drainage boards have been set up.

EARL DE LA WARR

I see the noble Lord's point and I must confess that I do not think I have quite answered it, but I can tell him now that the first board is nominated by the Minister.

LORD DESBOROUGH

By the Minister?

EARL DE LA WARR

Yes.

LORD DESBOROUGH

I thought he would come in soon. That is the hundred and fifty-eighth time. But it does not say that in the Bill. It is the autocratic appointment by the Minister of the first drainage boards. They are not elected at all.

EARL DE LA WARR

They have to get to work like that for a few months and then—

LORD DESBOROUGH

But that is not in the Bill. May I ask that this point shall be cleared up at a future stage, because we shall have the responsibility of setting up these drainage boards, and I want to know whether we have to appoint the members, whether the Minister is going to appoint them, or who is going to do it.

EARL DE LA WARR

I fear that I owe the House an apology for not being able to answer this point directly. I will certainly look into it.

Third Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Fourth Schedule [Provisions as to the Compulsory Acquisition of Land by Drainage Board]:

LORD CLINTON

I should like to draw the attention of the noble Earl to this Schedule although there is no Amendment on the Paper in regard to it. It provides for the compulsory acquisition of land. You will see it contains the same wording as that which was objected to on the Second Schedule and which it was agreed should be amended. Alterations will be required in this Schedule and I would ask the noble Earl to be good enough to look into it before the Report stage.

EARL DE LA WARR

Certainly.

Fourth Schedule agreed to.

Fifth Schedule agreed to.

Sixth Schedule: