§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (THE DUKE OF SUTHERLAND)My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. In doing so I should like to make an explanation upon a point raised by the noble and learned Viscount, Lord Haldane, on the Second Reading, to the effect that Section 5 would make it possible to convict a person who had nothing to do with Scotland, who had never heard of the Bill, and who might be only casually and temporarily in Scotland. Clause 5, however, deals with offences against the Bill. For instance, a person makes a false statement in a declaration made for the purpose of 504 some Act of Parliament or makes a false declaration with a view to securing registration on some register kept in pursuance of an Act of Parliament. It is essential that a person who makes such a false statement should be punishable though he made the statement abroad instead of in Scotland; otherwise it would be possible to evade the Act by crossing the Channel in order to make a false declaration for use in Scotland. Clause 5 could not be used except where the false statement had been made for the purpose of securing something in Scotland—for example, registration as a voter or as a dentist. There is no possibility therefore of the shipwrecked mariner, to whom the noble and learned Viscount, Lord Haldane, referred, being apprehended on his forced landing in Scotland and being there imprisoned for some false oath or statement he had made in complete ignorance of Scotland and of this Bill. I hope that explanation will satisfy the noble and learned Viscount.
I also want to make it clear that this clause is in complete conformity with Section 8 of the English Act of 1911, though the latter is rather wider in its terms for it applies to offences punishable under other Acts as well as to contraventions of that Act. That Act has been amended in some points, chiefly as regards procedure, but no amendment that in any way affects Section 8 or limits its operation has been made. The present Bill is exactly analogous to the English Act of 1911, making allowances for the essential differences between Scottish and English criminal administration. Any objection to Clause 5 of the Bill therefore necessarily applies with equal force to Section 8 of the Act of 1911.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Duke of Sutherland.)
§ VISCOUNT HALDANEMy Lords, the statement which the noble Duke has just made is in accordance with what his technical advisers have pointed out to be desirable, if not necessary, and the outcome is that it is just one of those clauses which we put into Acts of Parliament that go far beyond the necessities of some of the cases which may come up, but are convenient and possibly 505 essential as regards others. In those circumstances, having great confidence in the common sense of the judiciary, I am not prepared to offer any opposition to this Bill, but I do not like legislation in this form.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly:
§ [The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE, in the Chair.]
§ Bill reported without amendment.