§ LORD DANESFORT rose to call attention to the statement made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture in this House 21st April last, to the effect that the Minister of Agriculture was in favour of some structural improvement being made in cattle ships where cattle are carried on the upper deck, and undertook to make inquiries with the Departments 1361 mainly concerned to see what could be done in this direction, and to ask His Majesty's Government what steps have been taken to give effect to this undertaking.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, the way in which this matter arose was this. On April 21 of this year my noble friend Lord Lambourne called attention to the appalling sufferings which had been caused to a cargo of cattle from Canada which had been carried over to this country in a steamship called the "Manchester Producer," and it appeared from the reports which were furnished then that of 428 cattle which were on beard no less than thirty-two were washed overboard and drowned and 133 had to be thrown overboard alive and were drowned. In the course of the debate strong comments were made upon the practice of carrying animals on the upper deck with totally insufficient accommodation and it appeared that in that case large numbers of cattle were housed on the upper deck of that ship in ordinary cattle pens which were boarded on one side and had some miserable tarpaulin covering the top.
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In replying for the Government my noble friend Lord Bledisloe said this:—
It is extremely difficult, without permanent structures upon the upper deck of very different character from the coverings usually employed and those employed on this occasion, effectively to protect animals against accident under such conditions as those which prevailed in this case.
And, a little later, the noble Lord also said:—
The Minister of Agriculture is entirely in favour of some structural improvement being made in these cattle ships where cattle are carried on the upper deck, and we realise, the importance, of this.
He went on:—
The Department is at the present time in communication with the persons who are mainly concerned, first of all the Dominions Office and the Board of Trade, and also very particularly those who are interested in the Canadian shipping trade.
The noble Lord said he was not in a position to say anything definite then as to the result of these negotiations, but he gave a promise that those negotiations world be carried on with a view to improving the conditions under which cattle are carried in trans-Atlantic steamers—and I presume it would apply to steamers crossing the Channel as well—with a view
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to removing these sufferings. That is the state of the facts and in these circumstances I beg to ask the noble Lord what steps the Government have taken to give effect to the undertaking which he gave on that occasion.
§ LORD BLEDISLOEMy Lords, I am sorry that my noble friend Lord Lambourne, who raised this question in your Lordships' House in April last, is unable to be here to-night owing to illness, but I am very glad that my noble friend Lord Danesfort has given me an opportunity of telling your Lordships what, in fact, has been done in this matter. I gave a certain undertaking then on behalf of the Ministry of Agriculture which—I think your Lordships will agree when have made my short statement—has been faithfully carried out. Speaking on April 21 I said that the Minister of Agriculture was entirely in favour of some structural improvement being carried out on these ships for the benefit of these unfortunate animals which were quite unduly exposed to the weather in mid-Atlantic. I also mentioned that we were in consultation with the Board of Trade and the Dominions Office as to the best means to adopt in order to firing about the desired improvement. Unfortunately the discussion with these other Departments has been prolonged and has revealed quite considerable difficulties in arriving at a thoroughly satisfactory method of protecting the animals on the upper decks of the existing vessels.
In the meantime, however, feeling that winter was once more upon us with all the risks it involved to animals crossing the seas, the Ministry considered it essential in order to allay possible public anxiety to issue an Order, which they did on November 5, prohibiting the carriage of animals on the weather deck of any vessel of what is described as the flush or spar deck type. By "the flush or spar clock type" I mean vessels with a forecastle and without a poop: that is to say, there would be practically a flat surface which could be washed by the waves. This Order was to operate as from November 8 to March 31. It is an interim Order and it has been issued. The Order affects eleven vessels only out of a total of forty engaged in the trans-Atlantic trade. In the meantime progress is being made in arriving at a satisfactory solution of this general 1363 question of the carriage of animals without cruelty on the upper deck and it is expected that the new Regulations will be ready for issue before March 31.
My noble friend incidentally mentioned the carriage of animals across the Channel, by which I presume he means St. George's Channel, coming from Ireland. The proposals that I have mentioned refer, of course, only to the trans-Atlantic trade. The position regarding the Irish cattle trade is analogous, but involves a very much larger number of vessels. The vessels carrying cattle from Ireland, although the voyage is shorter, are undoubtedly at times exposed to equally rough weather and consequently the cattle to equal risk. To show the dimensions of this trade from Ireland, I may say that the annual shipping of animals from Ireland to our shores amounts at present to about 1,000,000 cattle—as compared with 100,000 all told from Canada—and half a million sheep and half a million pigs; so it is quite a considerable trade as the noble Lord will see. The Ministry, therefore, have been engaged for some time past in drawing up revised Regulations applying to the Irish trade, and have done so in consultation with the Board of Trade and with the two Irish Governments, all of whom have quite fully concurred in the action which the Ministry proposes to take. The result of these deliberations is to lay it down as one of the basic principles that no animal shall henceforward be carried on the forward part of the open main deck during the winter months and that sheep only should be allowed to be carried on the bridge and the sheltered decks during the winter.
The Ministry also proposes to lay down a definite specification for the fittings on every vessel constructed or fitted for animals for the first time after the date of the new Order. There are certain other improvements which it is proposed to make, which include better ventilation and light, more stringent provisions regarding the tying of cattle and the provision that every vessel must carry an experienced cattle foreman, which, if your Lordships remember, we found was not the case in the "Manchester Producer," as well as a sufficient number of additional attendants. It will also be laid down that vessels must carry a humane killer, the beating of animals with sticks during embarkation and debarkation 1364 will be prohibited and the use of a goad of a pattern approved by the Ministry will be substituted.
The Ministry is just now discussing all these matters with the shipping companies concerned, and it is hoped that as a result every practicable means will be taken to protect the animals from avoidable suffering with no undue cost to the shipping companies. But I should like to take this opportunity of making an appeal to the shipping companies to help the Ministry in ensuring that no avoidable suffering is caused to animals during the sea voyage, whether it be across the Atlantic or even across the St. George's Channel, where the shipments are much more considerable than they are from Canada. I hope that statement will prove satisfactory to my noble friend and your Lordships.
§ LORD DANESFORTI am much obliged to the noble Lord for his reply.