MONEYLENDERS BILL. [H.L.] (Hansard, 24 November 1925)

§ LORD CARSON

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do go into Committee on this Bill. I think what I have to say in making this Motion will not take up much time. Your Lordships will remember that after this Bill had received a Second Reading in this House another 834 Bill in another place also received its Second Reading. A Motion was then made to refer these Bills to a Joint Select Committee of the two Houses and this Bill and the other Bill were presented to the Joint Committee which was set up. That Committee sat for some considerable time and took a considerable amount of evidence, which, if any of your Lordships have leisure to lead, you will find extremely interesting, on some of the matters connected with this difficult subject of moneylending. I think we owe much to the patience of Lord Darling, who gave a great deal of time in presiding over that Committee with the knowledge and experience which he had obtained during the long period that he adorned the Bench.

The Committee have now reported. They have made a good many alterations in the Bill and I shall state the chief of them in a few words. In the first place they propose that moneylending should be carried on under a system of licensing which they have set out in the Bill, subject, of course, to the approval of the House of Commons. Then they have made considerable alteration in the restriction of the rate of interest, in connection with which, when the Bill comes to be discussed by clauses, I myself would like to propose an alteration They have changed the percentage which was in the Bill when it left this House from 15 per cent, to 4 per cent, per month, which, worked out in the way in which the moneylenders carry on their business by monthly instalments, represents, I am told, 80 per cent, per annum, which seems to me, if true, to be too great a rate. I mention that as one of the chief matters introduced. The Select Committee have also made considerable changes as regards the use of the Bankruptcy Court for enforcing these debts by moneylenders, entirely, I think, advantageous to the Bill. I do not think anything more remarkable occurred in the course of the proceedings of the Select Committee than the evidence given by the Bankruptcy officials of this country, which showed, as well as I remember, that more than 30 per cent, of the whole of the bankruptcy petitions which led to bankruptcy in this country are presented by moneylenders and nearly as large a percentage are settled after presentation, the moneylenders, no doubt, making use 835 of the Bankruptcy Court for the purpose of bringing pressure upon the relatives of those to whom it would be disastrous to become bankrupt. In addition there is a considerable amount of evidence as to the effect upon other creditors when the moneylender's debt goes into the Bankruptcy Court. By their system of interest and compound and super-compound interest, and in other ways, they are able to heap up their charges and obtain practically the control of the whole administration of the bankruptcy fund, to the exclusion of the other creditors.

I will not go further into matters. They are all matters of great importance, and I propose, if it is agreeable to your Lordships, as being the most feasible way of dealing with the Bill, that we should go into Committee now, and that I should move that all the Amendments made by the Select Committee be inserted in the Bill. Then, if your Lordships are agreeable that that should be done, I would propose that the Report stage should be put down for a convenient time, and noble Lords will then have an opportunity of challenging any of these alterations by moving Amendments to them, or by moving additions to the Bill. That seems to me to be the practical way of dealing with this Bill. I earnestly hope that we may get the Bill through in the shortest possible time and that the great time and attention given by the members of the Joint Select Committee may not be thrown away. I beg to move.