STANDING ORDER NO. XXI. (Hansard, 10 April 1924)

§ LORD PARMOOR
My Lords, I beg to move the Motion for the appointment of a Select Committee to consider the working of Standing Order No. XXI. Your Lordships will recollect that Lord Newton 251 called attention to the working of Standing Order No. XXI, and it was then stated that, so far as the Government were concerned, it was a matter to be left entirely to the judgment of the House. The noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack said he thought it might be desirable that a Select Committee should be appointed to deal with this matter. The Motion that stands in my name is that it is desirable that a Select Committee should be appointed for this purpose. There are down on the Paper the names of seven noble Lords, all of whom, I think, are willing to serve. I want to add another name, that of Lord Stanmore. I am told that I ought to mention his name at this stage. I do not think there would be any difficulty in there being eight members of the Committee, because it is the ordinary practice of your Lordships' House, as regards Private Bill Committees, to have four members.

§ VISCOUNT CECIL OF CHELWOOD
Always five in the Lords.

§ LORD PARMOOR
Yes, I was wrong; live. I am obliged to the noble Viscount. But I do not think there would be any difficulty in applying that principle, and I may point out that we should have the advantage of the Chairmanship of the Lord Chairman. The reason why I have suggested the name of Lord Stanmore is that I entered into certain negotiations with the noble Lord, Lord Newton, and I suggested that there should be two representatives of each of the three Parties in this House. Subsequently, it was thought that seven would be better than eight, but, nevertheless, I hope your Lordships will accept what I propose, and add the name of Lord Stanmore to the number, making a Committee consisting of eight members. It would, I think, be unwise to refer to the individual members, nor is it necessary in a case of this sort.

§ THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLESTON
My Lords, as I was partially involved in these discussions, perhaps I may say a word. I think that in my remarks suggesting the formation of this Committee I indicated that seven would probably be a proper number, and that is the number which seems to me to be most in consonance with our ordinary procedure and with convenience. At a subsequent stage I entered into communication with my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack about the matter, continuing to act on the assumption that I have named. Meanwhile, my noble friend the Lord President was in independent negotiation with the responsible Parties seated on this side of the House, and thus there was a certain difference between our respective lines of procedure. I was moving on the lines of a Committee of seven, and Lord Parmoor on the lines of a Committee of nine. In the course of those negotiations he appears to have entered into some sort of undertaking with my noble friend Lord Beauchamp. I am sure I do not desire to interfere with the fulfilment of any undertaking that has excited reasonable expectations.
There was only one observation made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Parmoor, with which I did not quite agree. He said, for instance, that he had made an endeavour in his proposals to represent the different Parties in the House by two each. I see sitting behind the noble and learned Lord, the noble Earl, Lord Russell. Is he a member of that Party? I believe that no body would repudiate the imputation more stoutly than my noble friend, Lord Russell, and when I warmly——

EARL RUSSELL
May I interrupt the noble Marquess to ask him whether I understood him to say that I should repudiate the insinuation that I was a member of the Labour Party?

§ THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLESTON
No. All I was suggesting was that 253 my noble friend should repeat the statement which he made to our satisfaction some time ago with regard to the Party represented by noble Lords sitting on that Bench. As to the addition of his name to the Committee, I assented to the suggestion with enthusiasm because no man has a greater knowledge of the forms of this House and no man, although professedly a Radical, is more Conservative in his observation of our traditions but I did not for one moment accept him as a member of the Party which sits in front of him, because his attitude at the present moment is one of unremitting vigilance, and one might say of almost constant opposition.
In regard to the noble Earl, Lord Beauchamp, I cannot enter into the exact proportions of the Party of which he is an ornament and their right to have one, two or three members. I should prefer that the matter should be dealt with on personal grounds only. I think that the noble Lords, who, it is proposed, should be put upon this Committee, were selected really because of their knowledge of the subject, their long experience of your Lordships' House, and their ability to give you good advice, and if the, noble Lord, Lord Stanmore, answers to that description, as I am quite willing to believe he does, I raise no objection to his being put upon the Committee. But I depreciate the idea that any attempt has been made upon this Committee to represent in fair proportions the various Parties in this House, because none of us has the slightest idea what those Parties are.

EARL RUSSELL
My Lords, I do not know whether I might say a word by way of personal explanation. I am not quite sure now whether the noble Marquess wished to suggest that I was or was not a member of the Labour Party. It will be, I think, in the recollection of your Lordships—and I thought the noble Marquess was in the House at the time—that on the first day of the Session I stated that I had been for seven years a member of the Labour Party.

THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLES-TON
Yes but the noble Earl objected to not being summoned to their meetings.

EARL RUSSELL
Precisely, and for the very reason that I was a member. But I am summoned now, and that has 254 been put right. So car as this Committee is concerned, I thought that I was probably asked to serve upon it because the noble Marquess was good enough to ask me to serve on a similar Committee some years ago.