HL Deb 10 April 1924 vol 57 cc247-50
LORD. BANBURY OF SOUTHAM

My Lords, I wish to ask His Majesty's Government whether any communications have passed between them and the Government of the Irish Free State as to the probability of arresting the murderers of the British soldiers at Queenstown last month. On the 21st of last month a party of 21 soldiers landed at Queenstown, somewhere about the middle of the day. At that moment a motor car containing four men in the uniform of the Irish Free State, with two machine guns, opened fire upon these unfortunate men, killing two or three and wounding others. The Government sent a message of sympathy to the Free State and the Free State offered a reward of £10,000, but, so far as I know, up to the present no persons have been arrested.

More than three weeks have elapsed since the crime. The crime took place in broad daylight, in a public place, and it is absurd to say that there are not many people who know perfectly well who the people in this motor car were and what became of them. I bring this Question forward because I am very much afraid that unless some Question of this sort is put the matter will be allowed to drop and the whole country will forget what has taken place. At the present moment—I do not know why—memories are very short, and unless people are reminded of what has taken place the tendency is to let the matter slide and to forget all about it. Now, we have had unfortunate experience with regard to the arrest of people in the Southern parts of Ireland. There were two or three—I forget the exact number—officers and one private who were sent on an expedition during the truce. They were captured, and nobody knew anything about their fate, and nothing was ever found of them. In another place Questions were asked, but nothing happened, and only about a month or two months ago the bodies of these men were found in a disused pit.

I do not know whether any communications have passed between the two Governments, but I put it to your Lordships whether it is conceivable that, in the days of Lord Palmerston, for instance, such an outrage would have been allowed to pass without some notice being taken of it. I hope that His Majesty's Government will inform your Lordships' House what communications have passed, and that if the murderers have not been arrested they themselves will take such action as will ensure their arrest. It may be said that it is difficult to get evidence—probably it will be—but it must be remembered that in the Irish Free State there are at present thousands of people in prison without trial. I do not recommend that course, but the Irish Free State have done it where it is to their interest to do it, and where it has once been done it can be done again. Possibly, if that course were taken, evidence would be forthcoming.

THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (LORD ARNOLD)

My Lords, certain communications which have passed between the Government of the Irish Free State and His Majesty's Government, in which the Free State Government expressed their abhorrence of this outbreak of savagery and their determination to use every effort to bring the murderers to justice, have already been published and I need not further refer to them. In addition, as I think your Lordships are aware, the Free State Government have expressed their intention of paying compensation to the relatives of the murdered man—one man was murdered; the others were injured—and to those who were injured; and I am happy to inform your Lordships that the Compensation (Ireland) Commission, under the Chairmanship of Sir Alexander Wood-Renton, is to-day sitting in London to hear the first of these cases.

In addition to these public communications, my right hon. friend the Secretary of State has kept in constant touch on this subject both with the President of the Executive Council and with the High Commissioner in this country, who have shown themselves anxious to keep him fully informed as to the steps which are being taken and as to the chances of success. Your Lordships will readily understand that in a matter of this kind the less said on either of those points before the criminals have been captured the better. But I am able to say that the Government of the Irish Free State are by no means without hope that, sooner or later, they will be able to bring the criminals, or some of them, to justice.

His Majesty's Government sincerely trust that these hopes will be justified and they are fully satisfied that in very difficult circumstances the Free State police and Army are doing their best. Ireland, from its national features, is a country in which it is far more easy for criminals to evade capture than in England, as we know from our own experience prior to the Treaty. I would remind your Lordships that the Free State Government have offered a reward of £10,000 for information leading to the capture of the criminals—a reward the magnitude of which I believe to be almost. if not quite, without precedent. The fact that this reward has not yet been claimed is significant of the difficulties with which any Irish Government has to deal.

THE MARQUESS CURZON OF KEDLES-TON

My Lords, I think my noble friend behind me is entirely justified in bringing this matter before your Lordships' House because, as he observed, there is a tendency in these days, when horrors seem to follow each other with increasing frequency, for the public memory to grow dim, and things which would have startled and bewildered in earlier times are allowed to pass by in a few weeks almost without notice. Therefore, I think my noble friend was quite right in asking for the information which he has sought. It is indeed, even in Ireland, where so many tragedies have happened, a most deplorable thing that this sort of incident, the shooting down of innocent British soldiers, even if only one was actually killed, in the light of day with scores, perhaps hundreds, of people looking on, should occur.

My noble friend behind me asked what steps were being taken to bring the criminals to justice, and in reply to that the Government, through the mouth of the noble Lord, have given us two pieces of information. He says, in the first place, that compensation is being offered, and is being arbitrated upon, to those who have lost or suffered. Of course, that is quite right so far as it goes, but what my noble friend really desires is not so much, or not only, compensation to the families of the victims as the arrest of the culpable parties. That is the gist of the whole matter, and neither the offer of £10,000, unprecedented as we are told it is, nor the grant of compensation on a most liberal scale will in the least satisfy those who want the criminals to be arrested and brought to the bar of justice.

Therefore, on the second point to which the noble Lord, Lord Arnold, alluded, I should like to join my noble friend in pressing His Majesty's Government to continue in close communication with the Irish Government on the subject. My noble friend Lord Banbury of Southam seemed to suggest that it was possible, for His Majesty's Government to make efforts to arrest the criminals. Of course, that is beyond their power, but everything that it is their power to do by pressure—of course, friendly pressure, but pressure of the strongest character upon the Irish Free State, and everything that the Irish Free State can do, and I venture to say ought to do, in this matter, ought to be encouraged, and if no information is forthcoming within a very short time I hope that my noble friend when we meet again will renew the Question which, as it appears to me. he quite legitimately put to-day.