HL Deb 22 June 1922 vol 50 cc1107-25

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL of DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]

Clause 1:

Penalty for discharge of oil into navigable waters.

1. If any oil is discharged, or allowed to escape, whether directly or indirectly, into any waters to which this Act applies from any vessel or from any place on land or from any apparatus used for the purpose of discharging oil from or transferring oil from or to any vessel, the owner or master of the vessel, the occupier of the land, or the person having charge of the apparatus, as the case may be, shall be guilty of an offence under this Act and shall in respect of each offence be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds:

Provided that it shall be a good defence to proceedings for an offence under this section to prove—

  1. (a) if the proceedings are against the owner or master of a vessel, that the escape of the oil was due to, or that it was necessary to discharge the oil by reason of, the vessel being in collision or the happening to the vessel of some damage or accident, and, in the case of escape, that all reasonable means were taken by the master to prevent the escape; and
  2. (b) if the proceedings are against any other person and are in respect of an escape of oil, that all reasonable means were taken by that person to prevent the escape.

LORD SOMERLEYTON moved to leave out "discharging oil from or." The noble Lord said: I will explain the reasons for moving this Amendment, and also the following Amendment which is to insert after "vessel," where that word secondly occurs, the words "to or from any other vessel (whether a vessel within the meaning of this Act or not) or to or from any place." The Bill does not apply to all vessels, but only to those capable of carrying a certain minimum of oil in bulk as cargo or fuel. Your Lordships will see that is so from Clause 8. The object of these two Amendments is to cover the escape of oil from apparatus used for transferring oil from or to such vessels—that is, vessels within the meaning of the Bill—and to or from vessels not coming within the meaning of the Bill, such as, for example, vessels not carrying oil in bulk as fuel or cargo, or carrying not more than five tons of such oil in any one container. The Amendments also cover the escape of oil from apparatus used for transferring oil to or from any place or land.

Amendment moved— Page 1, lines if and 10, leave out ("discharging oil from or").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 10, after ("vessel") insert ("to or from any other vessel (whether a vessel within the meaning of this Act or not) or to or from any place."—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

The next Amendments are drafting.

Amendments moved—

Page 1, line 13, leave out ("under this Act")

Page 1, line 14, after ("each") insert ("such")

Page 1, line 23, leave out ("in the ease of escape") and insert ("also if the proceedings are in respect of an escape of oil").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH moved, at the end of the clause, to insert the following new subsection:—

"( ).—(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this section the harbour authority may appoint a place or places within their jurisdiction within the area of which vessels which have brought a cargo of petroleum spirit may discharge their ballast water at such times and subject to such conditions as the harbour authority may from time to time determine.

"(b) For the purposes of this subsection petroleum spirit means refined petroleum which is subject to rapid evaporation, and has a flash point below 73° Fahrenheit (Abel close test)."

The noble Lord said: I regret that it has fallen to my lot to propose the Amendments which appear in the name of Lord Bearsted. I have a few Amendments of my own, and I must, therefore, appear in a dual capacity, but I do not propose at this hour of the evening, when your Lordships have an overburdened Order Paper before you, containing matters of considerable interest, to argue my Amendments. My object will be to go through them as quickly as possible, trusting that my noble friend who represents the Government will meet them wherever he can. As regards this Amendment, the Bill relates to oil, and there are, as your Lordships know, all sorts of products of oil. This Amendment is designed to mete out a different treatment to some of those products.

Amendment moved— Page 1, line 29, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Southborough.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I do not think this Amendment will do any harm. It will be a concession to the oil companies, and I am prepared to accept it.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2:

Prohibition of transfer of oil at night.

2.—(1) No person shall during the hours between sunset and sunrise, except where notice in that behalf has been given in accordance with the provisions of this section, transfer any oil to or from any vessel lying in any harbour.

(2) If any oil is transferred to or from any vessel in contravention of the provisions of this section, the master of vessel and the occupier of the premises from or to which the oil is transferred, or, if the oil is transferred from or to a barge, the person in charge of the barge, shall in respect of each offence be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds.

(3) A notice for the purposes of this section must be given to the harbour toaster of the harbour in which the vessel is lying not less than three nor more than ninety-six hours before the time at which the operation of transferring the oil is to begin:

Provided that in the case of an operation to be performed at a place where such operations are regularly carried on, the notice may, instead of being a notice given to the harbour master within the time hereinbefore provided, be a general notice given to the harbour master to the effect that such operations will during such period not exceeding three months from the date of notice, as may be specified therein, be carried on between sunset and sunrise.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

My first three Amendments to this clause are drafting.

Amendments moved—

Page 2, line 1, leave out ("no person shall") and insert ("it shall not be lawful")

Page 2, line 2, leave out ("except where notice in that behalf") and insert ("to transfer any oil to or from any vessel lying in any harbour unless notice of intention so to do")

Page 2, lines 4 and 5, leave out from ("section") in line 4 to the end of line 5.—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD SONERLEYTON moved, in subsection (2), after "vessel," where that word secondly occurs, to insert "or if the oil is transferred from or to a barge the person in charge of the barge." The noble Lord said: As the case now stands, the occupier of premises would not be liable to conviction in respect of operations conducted between the premises and a barge. The object of the Amendment is to make the occupier of the premises liable, as well as the person in charge of the barge.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 5, after ("vessel") insert ("or if the oil is transferred from or to a barge the person in charge of the barge").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

My remaining Amendments to this clause are drafting.

Amendments moved—

Page 2, lines 9 and 10, leave out ("or if the oil is transferred from or to a barge the person in charge of the barge")

Page 2, line 15, leave out ("not less than three nor") and insert ("and shall be of no effect unless given at least three hours and not")

Page 2, line 17, leave out ("is to begin") and insert ("commences").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I am prepared to accept the next Amendments standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bearsted.

Amendments moved—

Page 2, line 19, after ("are") insert ("frequently and")

Page 2, line 24, leave nut ("three") and insert ("twelve").—(Lord Southborough.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD MONK BRETTON moved at the end of the clause to insert the following new subsection— ( ) This section shall not apply to the transfer of oil to or from any vessel in the service of the London Fire Brigade. The noble Lord said: This is an Amendment for the protection of the London County Council. Your Lordships are aware that they are the authority for the protection of London from fire, but you may not be equally aware that they have fire engines on the river, four floats which are driven by oil, and stationed at various points on the river. They also have store barges, for the purpose of feeding those floats. It is essential that they should be able to do their duty in the prevention of fire on the riverside, and it is important that they should not be interfered with. I take it that it is not the intention of His Majesty's Government to interfere with the freedom of their operations, but, on reading the Bill, one is bound to see that there is great doubt whether the free transportation and transfer of this oil is not going to be interfered with.

The Bill provides that, before you move oil at night, you have to give notice to the harbour master, and it also provides that you may give periodical notice of three months. That is a somewhat curious way of giving notice. The point is governed by the proviso at the end of Clause 2 Provided that in the case of an operation to be performed at a place where such operations are regularly carried on— and so on. The point is that we are not in the habit of transferring our oil at a "place" at all. We are in the habit of sending our oil up several miles of river, and it is of the utmost importance that it should be clear that we are not interfered with. I hope the noble Lord will accept my Amendment, but, if he cannot, I hope he will make it clear that we are not going to be interfered with in any way in the protection of the riverside of London from fire, and also that this word "place," which appears to me to be objectionable, though I am not a lawyer, will not have the effect which I suggest. I cannot conceive that five miles of river are a "place." I should have thought that they were very much more than that. If he cannot say that they are a "place," will the noble Lord put such words in the Bill on Report as shall ensure that we can carry on the protection of London from fire as we have done heretofore?

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 25, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Monk Bretton.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I cannot accept the Amendment as proposed by my noble friend, but, so far as I am advised, there appears to be a little misapprehension on the matter. This Amendment proposes to give the London County Council different powers from those of any other authority, and to make them an exception to the whole rule. There does not, in my humble opinion, seem to be any reason why the London County Council should not give notice like any other public body. It is important that harbour authorities should have a record of vessels transferring oil by night in their harbours, and, as provision is made that general notice can be given in cases where it is intended to carry on the transfer of oil by night regularly, there does not seem to be any reason why this clause should involve any hardship upon the fire brigade, especially if the notice is made annually instead of quarterly, as is proposed in an Amendment which, I understand, is down on behalf of the oil companies.

It is obviously the desire of everybody that the fire brigade should have every facility for protecting the harbours and docks of London wherever they can, and, so far as I am informed, the Bill as it stands gives the London County Council all the powers they require. The words of the Bill are:— Provided that in the case of an operation to be performed at a place where such operations am regularly carried on, the notice may, instead of being a notice given to the harbour master within the time hereinbefore provided, be a general notice given to the harbour master to the effect that such operations will during such period not exceeding three months from the date of notice, as may be specified therein, be carried on between sunset and sunrise. The question between us is whether "at a place" is sufficient for the purpose. As I am instructed, the words "at a place" would cover a notice given by the London County Council that they were going to move oil during the next six or twelve months in any part of the river over which their oil is carried. If that be so, I trust that the noble Lord will not press the Amendment any further. If, however, he desires to press it further, we will consider it on the Report stage.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3:

Keeping of records with respect to transfer of oil.

3.—(1) There shall be kept in the case of every vessel a record, in the form prescribed by the Board of Trade, of all operations in connection with the transfer of oil to and from the vessel.

(2) The record required to be kept under this section shall in the case of a barge be kept, so far as relates to the transfer of oil to the barge, by the person supplying the oil, and, so far as relates to the transfer of oil from the barge, by the person to whom the oil is delivered, and shall in every other case be kept by the master of the vessel.

(3) Every record kept under this section may at all reasonable times be inspected by the harbour master of the harbour in which the vessel is or any person duly authorised in that behalf by the Board of Trade, the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, the Fishery Board for Scotland, or the Ministry of Commerce for Northern Ireland.

(4) If the person required to keep a record under this section fails to keep such a record or to make proper entries therein, or to produce the record on a demand in that behalf made by any person having power to inspect it, he shall in respect of each offence be liable on seminary conviction to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds, and if any such person makes any entry in the record which is to his knowledge false or in any material particular misleading, or wilfully fails to make any entry in the record, he shall, in respect of each offence, be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

The next two Amendments are drafting Amendments.

Amendments moved—

Page 2, line 28, leave out ("the form prescribed by") and insert ("such form as")

Page 2, line 29, after ("Trade") insert ("may prescribe").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

The next Amendment is necessary to enable the harbour master to inspect the record where a barge has left the harbour after transferring oil.

Amendment moved—

Page 2, line 40, after ("or") insert ("in the case of a barge, was at the time of transfer or by").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendments moved—

Page 3, line 1, leave out ("the") and insert ("any")

Page 3, line 4, leave out ("having power") and insert ("authorised").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 4:

Liquid contained in spaces used for carriage of oil to be deemed oil for purposes of Act.

4.—(1) Where oil has been contained in any tanks or other spaces in a vessel, any liquid discharged or allowed to escape from those tanks or spaces shall, unless it is proved by the evidence of the master of the vessel that the tanks or spaces have been cleaned of oil, or that the liquid has been freed from oil by means of a separating apparatus, be deemed to be oil within the meaning of this Act.

(2) In the case of proceedings against any person other than the master of a vessel such evidence as aforesaid may be given by means of a certificate signed by the master, and if the master of a vessel gives any certificate under this section which is to his knowledge false or in any material particular misleading he shall on summary conviction be liable in respect of each offence to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds.

(3) In this sect-ion the expression "master of a vessel" means the person named as the master in the agreement with the crew.

LORD SOMERLEYTON moved, in subsection (1), to leave out "by the evidence of the master of the vessel." The noble Lord said: The reason for this Amendment is that it is not desirable that the only method of proof should be by the evidence of the master. He may, for example, have died after the commission of the offence, and an awkward situation might ensue.

Amendment moved—

Page 3, line 16, leave out ("by the evidence of the master of the vessel").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH moved, on behalf of Lord BEARSTED, at the end of subsection (1), to insert the following new paragraph: The provisions of this section shall only apply to vessels lying in a harbour or waterway in which facilities for removing oily water from the tanks or other spaces in such vessels shall have been provided by the harbour authorities, but nothing contained therein shall prevent shipowners from making their own arrangements for disposal of such oily water.

The noble Lord said: This is a very important Amendment. The difference of opinion which exists with regard to this Bill can be stated in a few words. The Bill provides that ships desiring to pump out their oil should take it away, outside territorial waters. If they do not do so they are to be liable to a penalty. The other view is that it is a mistake to impose an obligation upon shipowners to take the oil outside territorial waters, and that the better course would be to keep it away from the sea altogether, and pump it out into barges in the harbours and then treat it scientifically, or either sell or destroy it. The object of the Amendment, stated quite shortly, is merely to impose through bylaws upon the authorities an obligation to supply necessary barges. Speaking for myself and not for the noble Lord, Lord Bearsted, it would be quite sufficient to meet the case, in my judgment, if the Board of Trade would give an undertaking to prepare a model form of by-laws and to agree them with the various parties before the Bill came into operation. To set to work to institute prosecutions by the very difficult method of discovering where the territorial waters, and so on, are, as an alternative to the method of agreement by by-law, seems to me to be very unwise, and I beg to move the Amendment.

Amendment moved—

Page 3, line 20, at end insert the said new paragraph.—(Lord Southborough.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I am afraid I cannot accept this Amendment. When Lord Bearsted was in the House the other day I understood that he was satisfied with the explanations which he had received and did not intend to proceed further on this point.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH

If I may say so I drew a distinction between the line taken by Lord Bearsted's Amendment and my own which appears later on the Paper.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

The object of this Amendment is to secure that oily water shall not be regarded as oil within the meaning of the Act unless barges or other receptacles have been provided by the harbour authorities. As oily water is the main trouble that this Bill is intended to mitigate, the Amendment strikes at the root of the Bill, as it implies that the Act is not to be operative unless the harbour authorities are bound by statute to provide barges or other appliances. This question was the subject of long discussion between the shipowners and the dock authorities. Every one agreed that barges would in fact be provided, but the port authorities said they could not accept a statutory obligation to provide them. In the end an agreement was arrived at between the shipowners and the dock authorities which was regarded, and so we are informed is still regarded, by both parties as satisfactory, and there is no doubt that this arrangement will be faithfully carried out.

Under this arrangement the dock authorities are pledged to consider proposals made to them by shipowners whose ships frequent their respective ports. What will happen in practice will probably be that the larger shipping companies and the tank companies will not wait for barges to be provided by the harbour authorities but will provide their own. In other cases probably barges will be provided by the harbour authorities or by private contractors. It must be remembered that the shipowners are well represented on the harbour authorities and are the customers of the harbour authorities, so that they have ample means of making their wishes and needs known to the harbour authorities. The Amendment would not in actual fact do more than will be done in any case, and therefore is really unnecessary, while it would upset a compromise arrived at after a great deal of difficulty by the two interests mainly concerned in this business. There is every reason to believe that this compromise agreement will be honourably carried out, and I therefore trust that the Amendment will not be pressed.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

The next two Amendments standing in my name are consequential.

Amendments moved—

Page 3, line 22, leave out ("such evidence as") and insert ("the matters")

Page 3, line 23, leave out ("given") and insert ("proved").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 5:

Application of fines.

5. Where any person is convicted of the offence of having in contravention of the provisions of this Act discharged or allowed to escape any oil into any waters to which this Act applies, the court before which he is convicted may on the application of the prosecutor order that the whole or any part of the fine imposed in respect of the offence shall be paid to such person as the court may direct for the purpose of being applied by him in or towards the discharge of any expenses incurred or to be incurred in the removal of the oil so discharged or allowed to escape.

Amendment moved—

Page 3, line 40, leave out ("the discharge of") and insert ("meeting").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6:

Power to inspect premises and vessels.

6.—(1) The Board of Trade may, if they think fit, either at their own instance or at the instance of the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, the Fishery Board for Scotland, or the Ministry of Commerce for Northern Ireland, or any local authority, appoint any officer of the Board of Trade or other competent person to inspect any vessel being in any waters to which this Act applies, and any person so appointed or the harbour master of the harbour in which the vessel is may at all reasonable times enter upon the vessel and examine the measures adopted to prevent the escape of oil.

(2) If it is represented to the Board of Trade, by the Minister of Apiculture and Fisheries, the Fishery Board for Scotland, or the Ministry of Commerce for Northern Ireland, or by any local or harbour authority, that there is reason to suspect that oil is escaping or has escaped, whether directly or indirectly, into waters to which this Act applies from premises adjacent to or in the neighbourhood of those waters, the Board of Trade may, if they think fit, appoint any officer of the Board or other competent person to inspect the premises, and any officer or person so appointed may at all reasonable times enter upon and inspect the premises.

(3) If any person obstructs or interferes with any person having power to enter on any premises or vessels under this section, he shall on summary conviction be liable in respect of each offence to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.

Amendment moved—

Page 4, line 5, after ("or") insert ("of").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH moved, in subsection (2), after "competent" ["competent person"], to insert "and impartial." The noble Lord said: I move this Amendment as I understand that sonic importance is attached to the word "impartial." It seems that at certain places the competent person who would be appointed to make an inspection might be interested in the local business, and persons who are going to be inspected would not desire that the inspection should be made by a competitor in the trade. The suggestion is that the word "impartial" should be inserted in order to avoid that difficulty.

Amendment moved—

Page 4, line 21, after ("competent") insert ("and impartial").—(Lord Southborough.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I do not think the Bill would be improved by the addition of these words "and impartial." They seem to me rather to imply that it is likely that the Board of Trade would appoint men who would not be impartial. If, however, the word "independent" would be acceptable to the noble Lord, I can meet him.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH

Yes, I will accept that and move accordingly.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment moved—

Page 4, line 21, after ("competent") insert ("and independent").—(Lord Southborough.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 25, leave out ("having power") and insert ("authorised").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 6, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 7:

Legal proceedings.

7.—(1) Where an offence under this Act is alleged to have been committed by the master of a vessel who thereafter departs from Great Britain and Northern Ireland before the expiration of the period within which proceedings for the offence might have been instituted against him, proceedings for the offence may, notwithstanding anything in the Summary Jurisdiction Acts, be instituted against him at any time within two months next after the date on which he first returns to Great Britain or Northern Ireland.

(2) For the purpose of any proceedings for an offence under this Act, the offence may be treated as having been committed either at the place at which it was actually committed or at any place in which the person charged with the offence may at any time be.

(3) Where a fine imposed by any court in proceedings against the owner or master of a vessel for an offence under this Act is not paid at the time and in manner prescribed by the court, the court shall, without prejudice to any other powers of the court for enforcing payment, have power to direct the amount remaining unpaid to be levied by distress or poinding and sale of the vessel, her tackle, furniture and apparel.

(4) Proceedings for an offence under this Act shall not be instituted in the case of an offence committed in or in relation to the waters of a harbour except by the harbour authority, and in the case of any other offence under this Act except by a person authorised in that behalf by special or general directions of the Board of Trade, the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, the Fishery Board for Scotland, or the Ministry of Commerce for Northern Ireland.

LORD SOMERLEYTON

There are two drafting Amendments to this clause.

Amendments moved—

Page 5, line 4, leave out ("prescribed") and insert ("ordered")

Page 5, lines 12 and 13, leave out ("the ease of any other offence under this Act") and insert ("any other case").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

LORD SOMERLEYTON moved, in subsection (4), to leave out "the Fishery Board for Scotland," and, at the end of the clause, to insert "Provided that nothing in this subsection shall apply to the institution of proceedings in Scotland." The noble Lord said: In the case of Scotland proceedings are instituted by the Procurator Fiscal, and not directed by private bodies or individuals. Hence this alteration is desirable.

Amendments moved—

Page 5, lines 15 and 16, leave out ("the Fishery Board for Scotland")

Page 5, line 17, at end insert ("Provided that nothing in this subsection shall apply to the institution of proceedings in Scotland").—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 8:

Interpretation and application.

8.—(1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—

The expression "oil" means oil of any description and includes spirit produced from oil and oil mixed with water:

The expression "harbour" means any harbour whether natural or artificial, and includes any port, dock, estuary or arm of the sea, any river or canal navigable by sea-going vessels, and any waters in which sea-going vessels can obtain shelter or ship or unship goods or passengers:

The expression "harbour authority" has the same meaning as in the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894:

The expression "harbour master" includes any person appointed by a harbour authority for the purpose of enforcing the provisions of this Act:

The expression "master" when used in relation to any vessel means the person having the command or charge of the vessel for the time being:

The expression "vessel" means any description of vessel which is constructed and fitted to carry in bulk, whether as cargo or for bunker purposes, more than five tons of oil in any one space or container:

The expression "transfer" in relation to oil means transfer in bulk:

The expression "local authority" means, in the application of this Act to England, the council of a county or county borough or urban or rural district or a port sanitary authority, in the application of this Act to Scotland the council of a county or burgh or a port local authority, and, in the application of this Act to Northern Ireland, the council of a county, county borough or county district, or a port sanitary authority.

(2) The waters to which this Act applies are the territorial waters of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the waters of harbours therein.

(3) For the purposes of section six of the Government of Ireland Act, 1920, this Act in its application to Northern Ireland shall be deemed to be an Act passed before the appointed day.

LORD SOMERLEYTON moved, in the definition of "harbour authority," to leave out "has the same meaning as in the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894," and to insert "includes all persons or bodies of persons, corporate or unincorporate, being proprietors of or entrusted with the duty or invested with the power of constructing, improving, managing, regulating or maintaining a harbour." The noble Lord said: The reason for this Amendment is that a definition of harbour authority in the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, includes bodies entrusted with the duty of lighting a harbour, and it is not necessary to include a pure lighting authority, such as Trinity House, in the category of harbour authority for the purposes of the present Bill. Otherwise, the new definition follows the definition in the Act of 1894.

Amendment moved— Page 5, lines 29 and 30, leave out ("has the same meaning as in the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894") and insert the said words.—(Lord Somerleyton.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CLWYD

On behalf of my noble friend Viscount DEVONPORT I desire to move the Amendment standing in his name, which I believe is accepted by the Government.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 38 leave out from ("vessel") to the end of line 42 and insert ("has the same meaning as in the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894").—(Lord Clwyd.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I accept the Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOMERLEYTON moved, in subsection (1), in the definition of "vessel," to insert "the expression 'barge' includes lighter or light vessel."

Amendment moved— Clause 8, page 5, line 42, at end insert the said words.—(Lord Somerleylon.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CLWYD

I desire to move the next Amendment also on behalf of the noble Viscount, Lord DEVONPORT.

Amendment moved—

Page 6, line 11, at end insert the following new subsection:—

("(2) This Act shall not apply to a vessel which is constructed or fitted so that not more than five tons of oil can be carried in bulk whether as cargo or for bunker purposes in any space or container provided that not more than 25 tons of oil in all is carried in such vessel").—(Lord Clwyd.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH moved, at the end of subsection (2), to insert the following new subsection:— ( ) In time of peace this Act with the exception of clauses 2, 3, and 6, shall apply to vessels belonging to or for the time being in the service of His Majesty and to persons in the service of and premises in the occupation of the Crown.

The noble Lord said: This is an attempt to make the Bill apply to His Majesty's ships. The object of the Amendment is quite clear. His Majesty's ships are the great oil users of the country. The object of the Bill is to rid the surface of the sea of oil. What we want to know is whether His Majesty's ships will act upon the same principles as those which are being applied by this Bill to the Merchant Service. I am very well aware that it is not the custom in ordinary circumstances to apply the Merchant Shipping Acts, or similar Acts, to His Majesy's ships. But I am equally aware that in cases of great importance instructions are issued by the Admiralty to His Majesty's ships to conform as nearly as possible to the law of the land, and I have put down this Amendment in the hope that my noble friend may be able to give some assurance and information on that subject.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 14, at end insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Southborough.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I am afraid I cannot accept this Amendment. The Amendment applies the Bill, with the exception of clauses at to the prohibition of transfer of oil at night, and keeping records with respect to the transfer of oil, and the inspection of premises and vessels, to Government ships and Government oil installations in time of peace. There is a great deal to be said for the proposition that Government ships and Government installations should be subject to the same law as private ships and private installations, and there is no desire on the part of the Admiralty that Admiralty ships and Admiralty property should not be subject to as close control as the ships and installations of private owners, but there is an objection in principle to doing it in this particular way, and it is, in point of fact, not necessary. As I think the noble Lord himself is aware, the Admiralty have already issued stringent orders as to the discharge of oil from His Majesty's ships. The case is very similar to that of international regulations for preventing collisions at sea. So far as Great Britain is concerned, these regulations are in force by Order in Council under the Merchant Shipping Act—

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH

I do not desire to interrupt, but on the statement the noble Lord has made I am prepared to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 9:

Short title and saying.

9.—(1) This Act may be cited as the Oil in Navigable Waters Act, 1922.

(2) The provisions of this Act shall be in addition to and not in derogation of or substitution for any provisions with respect to the transfer of oil contained in any Act, order, rule, regulation, or byelaw.

LORD CLWYD

I understand that the next Amendment which stands in the name of Lord DEVONPORT, and which I move on his behalf, is accepted by the Government.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 23, leave out ("with respect to the transfer of oil") and insert ("for the protection of a harbour as defined in this Act").—(Lord Clwyd.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH, on behalf of Lord BEARSTED, moved in subsection (2) to leave out "Act, order, rules, regulation, or bye-law," and insert "existing Act or re-enactment thereof or in any order, rule, regulation or bye-law made or to be made under such Act." The noble Lord said: I think my noble friend is going to amend this clause in sonic way or other, and if he will accept this verbal Amendment from me I shall be glad.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 23, leave out from ("any") to the end of line 24 and insert the said words.—(Lord Southborough.)

LORD SOMERLETYON

We do not think this wording is particularly good, but we do not object to the Amendment if the noble Lord presses it.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH moved, at the end of the clause, to insert the following new subsection:— (3) No bye-law proposed under the provisions of any such Act relating to matters contained in this Act shall be approved by the Board of Trade until after conference with (a) representatives of the port authority, the shipowners, and the oil companies; (b) corporations and municipal authorities interested in seaside towns in the vicinity of the port affected by the proposed byelaw; and (c) such authorities on bird and fish life and its preservation as the President of the Board of Trade for the time being shall think fit to summon.

The noble Lord said: The whole object of the Government, as I understand, has been to legislate in consequence of a conference that took place between certain parties. That may be good in itself, but the public have not been considered in this arrangement in any way. As well as the trade interest in such a matter as this (which is fast becoming of very great importance) the public interest should be considered also. For instance, the corporations of seaside watering places will take an interest in this matter before long. Also your Lordships may have observed the correspondence which has been going on in favour of the preservation of bird life. Lord Montagu spoke feelingly of the destruction of swans in Hampshire. There is also the question of the destruction of fish life.

There is nothing in the Bill about any of these matters because the remedy which the Bill seeks to apply is absolutely wrong and unscientific. The only object of this Amendment is to suggest that the by-laws which will have to be made in order to provide for the supply of the tanks and barges, to which my noble friend referred, should not come into force until various parties have been consulted. This Amendment would give an opportunity of consulting not only the trade interests, but those who are interested in bird life and in fish life, and the municipal councils of watering places. If they are not consulted what is going to happen will be this. You will have by-laws put in by Glasgow, or Belfast, or London on their own; there will be no continuity, no satisfaction, and no good administration. If my noble friend cannot see his way to accept this Amendment under which a model code of by-laws could be drawn up in conference, then on the Report stage I will make an appeal to him and to the Government not to bring this Bill into force until, say, the end of the year, in order to give time to the Board of Trade to make up its mind what it is going to put into the by-laws before it sets out to prosecute people in the police court and elsewhere.

Amendment moved— Page 6, line 24, at end, insert the said new subsection.—(Lord Southborough.)

LORD SOMERLEYTON

I am afraid cannot accept the Amendment of my noble friend. There are in this House a great many who have been associated with the Board of Trade at different times. We have the advantage of their counsel, but I am afraid they do not altogether sympathise thoroughly with the action of the Board of Trade now. The noble Lord, Lord Southborough, would like to concentrate all powers in one place and leave nothing to the local authority and nothing to the man on the spot. The policy of the Board of Trade is that we should lay down certain regulations which apply to all places affected by this Bill, and that we should then leave them to a great extent to manage their own concerns, because we think it is unnecessary to concentrate all the authority in one place.

I would remind the noble Lord that every harbour authority will desire as far as possible to keep up the trade of its own harbour and to keep that harbour in a fit and proper condition. The object of harbour and dock authorities is not contrary to that of the ship owners and is not contrary even to bird life, much to that of human beings. One of the objects of the present Bill is to supplement the existing powers of harbour authorities who have asked for further powers. The object of this Amendment is to provide that by-laws proposed under the provisions of any Act relating to the discharge of oil and other things should not be approved by the Government until after conference with various bodies. The Amendment would place a new restriction on all harbour authorities in the exercise of their existing powers which were given to them by Parliament at different times. There appears to be no reason for the imposition of this additional impediment to harbour authorities, in my humble view. I trust, therefore, that the noble Lord will not press his Amendment. I have done my best to meet Amendments brought forward by noble Lords on every point up to now, and I hope that this Amendment will not be pressed.

LORD SOUTHBOROUGH

I am afraid I cannot assent to the interpretation put upon the Amendment as regards its effect on existing legislation. I will certainly withdraw the Amendment now, but I will refer to the matter again later.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 9, as amended, agreed to.