§ LORD STRACHIE had a Notice on the Paper to move, That there be laid upon the Table of the House the evidence and recommendations of the Travelling Commission upon which the Food Controller based his Order that in the counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon, and Cornwall, milk producers receive 2d. a gallon less for their milk than in any other counties.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, it may be in the recollection of the House that a week ago I withdrew a similar Motion at the request of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who suggested that I should put it down again "in about a week's time." I have done so, and I also gave the noble Earl notice of the Question which stands in my name on the Paper to-day. I suppose he must have received this on Monday morning. What was my surprise on coining down to the House to receive a letter asking me to postpone for a few days my Question with regard to milk prices. I was aware that the Ministry of Food Vote was down in the House of Commons for to-day, and that a similar Question would be addressed in another place to Mr. Roberts. I imagine that the noble Earl will have no objection to my proceeding, as Mr. Roberts will be cross-examined in another place, and I take it that the noble Earl will not object to making the same statement here that the Food Controller will have to make in the House of Commons.
§ LORD STRACHIEI thought the noble Earl's letter to me referred to both, because he refers to "your notice of Motion and Question." Therefore I very naturally was under the impression that the noble Earl requested me not to make my Motion with regard to the evidence and the report. I am glad, however, to think that the noble Earl did not mean that, and that it was a mistake on the part of his private secretary. Otherwise it would have been putting this House in a very curious position, and saying that the Government were prepared to say in the House of Commons what they were not prepared to say in the House of Lords.
482 Now I will deal with My Motion. I cannot see why the noble Lord, Lord Ernie, objected to giving the information I ask for, and I hope (especially as it will surely have to be given in the House of Commons) that the noble Earl will now be able to consent to my Motion I cannot see any reason why we should not know upon what grounds this recommendation has been made for penalising the four counties. I know that it has been reported—I expect the noble Earl will contradict me in saying so—that tins Travelling Commission of the Ministry of Food recommended that this 2d. a gallon should be paid over to the Ministry of Food, and I am informed that in their recommendation they said that the amount thus received was to be voted to the administrative charges of the Ministry of Food. I can hardly believe that this is so, because it seems an extraordinary thing that the Travelling Commission should report that the unfortunate farmers of these four counties should forfeit this 2d. a gallon for the benefit of the Ministry of Food—presumably, as they say it is for administrative charges, to increase the pay and the salaries of those Ministers. Further, I am told that this Report recognises the difficulties of penalising the Western counties, and that the Commission are quite ready to acquiesce in a flat rate if there are difficulties in carrying out these proposals. I should think that by now the Ministry of Food recognise that there are great difficulties in carrying out this matter. Anyhow, I hope that the noble Earl is going to allow us in these four counties to know exactly and officially the grounds upon which this recommendation has been made. What was divulged to us with regard to the climatic conditions will certainly satisfy no one; they are reasons which do not hold water at all. I beg to move.
§ Moved, That there be laid upon the Table of the House the evidence and recommendations of the Travelling Commission upon which the Food Controller based his Order that in the counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon, and Cornwall, milk producers receive 2d. a gallon less for their milk than in any other counties.—(Lord Strachie.)
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)My Lords, in the first place I beg leave to apologise if there was any verbal mistake 483 in the letter sent at my direction to the noble Lord. I do not propose to discuss the merits of this case, as Lord Strachie invites me to do. I propose to accept the Motion. But, I must repeat why I could not accept it last week. Lord Strachie asked me why I refused then. I did so because I had had no notice of the Motion. It was announced to your Lordships only in the last few words of Lord Strachie's speech, and clearly it was impossible for a representative of a Department to pledge his Department on matters of this kind without consultation. I refused because I had received no notice. Having submitted it to Mr. Roberts he accepted without the slightest demur the terms of Lord Strachie's Motion, subject to one point. I will accept the Motion as it stands provided that Lord Strachie will appreciate the fact that there was no evidence given to this Travelling Commission in the sense that evidence is given to a Railway Committee or to a Parliamentary Committee, with stenographic notes. Papers, however, shall be laid giving the recommendations of this Travelling Commission and explaining in full the grounds upon which this proposal has been put forward, and I will give them to the authorities of the House as soon as I get the necessary documents.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ LORD STRACHIEI am obliged to Lord Crawford for accepting my Motion. I understand that he prefers to have my Question put off.
§ LORD STRACHIEI was ready, of course, to agree that it should be postponed. However, I will put it. I wish to ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will state what amount the Ministry of Food estimates will be produced by the 2d. a gallon payable to them on milk produced in the four counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon, and Cornwall, and exported from those counties in the form of milk, cheese, butter, cream, or other goods manufactured from milk. I suppose they must have considered that it would be some appreciable sum, because although it is true that the Travelling Commission reported that it ought to go towards administrative expenses, they 484 seemed afterwards to have changed their minds. The President said, in a letter written by him later, that this amount was to go towards the reduction of milk prices throughout the country. So they must have had some idea. But if the noble Earl tells me it is impossible to make an estimate, and that they made no estimate at all, I shall be quite satisfied.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDMy Lords, there was no idea of disrespect to your Lordships' House in my suggesting that this Question should be put off. Lord Strachie seems to think that an announcement is going to be made about it in the House of Commons. Questions may be asked in the House of Commons just as they may be asked here. Mr. Roberts is not in a position to answer the Question to-day, and that is why I invited the noble Lord to put it off, and why, if a similar Question be asked in the House of Commons, it will there equally be postponed. The reason is that no adequate estimate can be made or need be made until a few days or weeks have passed when actual figures will give a just ground for assessing the number of these twopennies. In a week or two something concrete will be known, and if Lord Strachie cares then to put his Question down, or consult me as to putting it down, I shall be able to give him an answer based on facts.