§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I desire to call your attention to an entry which appears on the Minutes of Proceedings circulated in respect of last Friday. It appears—
Increase of Rent and Mortgage Interest (Restrictions) Bill: Brought from the Commons; read 1a.Your Lordships do not require to be reminded that the House did not sit last Friday except for judicial business, and before I make any observations upon it I should like to ask His Majesty's Government whether they can throw any light upon this entry, and upon whose authority and whose Motion a Bill was read a first time when the House was sitting only for judicial business.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR(who was indistinctly heard): My Lords, the circumstances under which this step was taken may, I think, be quite shortly explained. It was, of course, extremely desirable that as much time should be given to your Lordships as was practicable for the discussion of the Bill, which is of some considerable detail. It was, on the other hand, urgent that the Bill should be passed through all its stages, if possible, and should receive the Royal Assent before Quarter Day. The reason was that very many tenants at this moment have had notice to quit served upon them, and unless this Bill became law before Quarter Day they would have no answer at all to action for eviction. In these circumstances it was really of peremptory importance that, if it could be brought about, the Bill should receive the Royal Assent before Quarter Day.
Those who were responsible for the transaction of business in your Lordships' House were anxious that the maximum of time should be afforded for the discussion of the Bill. It would have been impossible to give your Lordships time to discuss the Bill unless the First Reading was taken on Friday. In these circumstances my noble friend the Leader of the House was consulted, and he being satisfied that we should thus obtain more time for the discussion and should be able to give your Lordships a longer time to read the Bill after it was printed, the course suggested was adopted. I may mention that there is a good deal of precedent for taking the First Reading 709 in such circumstances. I hope the noble Marquess will not think that it was done with any other motive than that of expediting the progress of the Bill.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI am certain that the motives of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack were absolutely above suspicion, and I do not suggest for a moment that there has been any sinister object concealed beneath this procedure. But I think it right to call your Lordships' attention to what happened. There was no reason for this proceeding. The Government had ample knowledge of when the measure was coming from another place, and all they had to do was to ask your Lordships to appoint a sitting of the full House on Friday last if they wished to read a Bill a first time on that day; and I am certain that if they had made such a proposal to your Lordships it would have been readily assented to. But they did not do so because they did not understand what their business was. Their business was to see that the proper regulations of your Lordships' House were obeyed; they did not notice that the time was running out and that they would not be able to do what they wished if they missed this particular Friday.
The noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack has said that the Bill must be through by a certain day. That depends entirely upon your Lordships' wishes in the matter. I am not at all sure that the Bill can be in any case through by the day the noble and learned. Lord mentions; that must depend upon what your Lordships wish in the subsequent stages of the Bill. But there was a good reason for not delaying the First Reading; and if the Government had had their eyes properly fixed on the business they would have seen that it was necessary to have an ordinary sitting of the House in order to read the measure a first time. I admit that this is a technical matter, but it is one of those technical matters that have to be watched. We do not want the judicial sittings of the House to be used as ordinary sittings. If that is done it would create a precedent which, in the hands of another Government (let us say), might be used in a very adverse way to the liberties of your Lordships' House. If such a course were adopted it might be considered proper when the House is sitting judicially to submit ordinary legislation to it, and we might have 710 Bills passed through without your Lordships knowing anything about it.
I understand why the Government have done this in this particular instance, and I do not propose to take any further notice of it on the present occasion. I think it is only right to give notice that if it happens on a future occasion your Lordships would be perfectly entitled to take whatever steps you thought right in the matter, which would probably take the form of insisting upon a further adjournment when the Second Reading was reached. That is not a course which I suggest the House should take on the present occasion. There is every reason why this Bill should be hastened with all due despatch, but I do not think that the Government ought to have put us in this position. In the future—except where, towards the end of the session, it may be right to do it, with full notice of such a proceeding—I hope that no advantage will be taken of a judicial sitting in order to get through one stage of an ordinary legislative Bill which ought to be taken in the usual sitting of the House.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON)My Lords, I have not heard the whole of this discussion, or indeed anything except the concluding sentences of the noble Marquess; therefore I am not. certain that my interposition may be altogether relevant to the point he has raised. I understood the noble Marquess to complain of the procedure by which the First Reading of this Bill was taken at a judicial meeting of your Lordships' House on Friday last, and under which the Second Reading is put down for to-day. I assume the full responsibility for that. At the conclusion of our sitting on Thursday last the print was submitted to me, and I was told that there was an urgent desire on the part of your Lordships' House—felt by nobody more strongly than by the noble Marquess:—that the Bill should be taken on Tuesday of this week.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYNot at all.
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONI may have been misinformed.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI beg my noble friend's pardon. He said I expressed an Opinion. I expressed no such opinion.
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONI did not say you did. I said I was so informed.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYThen you were misinformed.
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONI am only stating my case to the House. I accept full responsibility, and I am stating the grounds upon which I acted. I was informed that there was a desire, shared by the noble Marquess—about whom I put the question—that the Bill should be taken for Second Reading to-day. I inquired whether it was in accordance with precedent that the First Reading should be taken at the judicial meeting on Friday. I was informed that there were precedents to that effect; and it was with the view exclusively of studying the convenience of noble Lords that I gave my consent. Knowing the strong views of the noble Marquess about correct procedure here, I especially inquired whether it was the desire of the noble Marquess that this proceeding should be taken, and whether steps would be taken to ensure his compliance. I was told that would be so. Therefore if we have erred it has not been from any desire either to encroach upon the privileges of your Lordships' House or to do anything displeasing to the Front Bench opposite.