HL Deb 16 December 1919 vol 38 cc210-9

VISCOUNT BRYCE had the following Question on the Paper—

To ask His Majesty's Government if their attention has been called to the Memorial recently presented to the Council of Five assembled in the Peace Conference at Paris by the three Bishops of Transylvania (Roman Catholic, Calvinist, and Unitarian) setting forth the persecutions and cruelties which are, as they state, being inflicted upon their people by the Rumanian military authorities occupying that country, and also praying that an enquiry may be made into the conduct of these authorities and an end put to the oppressions now being practised by them; and whether His Majesty's Government will inquire into the truth of these statements and will, if they are substantiated, take such measures as are in their power to have these persecutions stopped and the grievances already done redressed.

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, at this late hour of the night I shall trouble your Lordships with as few remarks as possible in order to explain the circumstances which have given rise to the grievances that I desire to bring before your Lordships and to the Question on the Paper. It is within the recollection of all your Lordships that after the Armistices had been concluded with Germany and Austria, the troops of Rumania pressed forward into Transylvania with the will of the Allied Powers, and that they followed the retiring Austro-Hungarian troops through that country and ultimately into Hungary, and they arrived finally at Buda-Pesth. It is also within your knowledge that their conduct in those countries was anything but creditable, and it called for the attention of the Allied Powers, who were obliged to remonstrate with them on the way they were behaving.

In Transylvania, to which I desire specially to draw the attention of the House, Ruman soldiery occupied the whole country. They have been treating it as if it were a conquered country and are still holding it now. The reason of the conduct, to which I am going to refer presently, is this: the Rumanians claim that they are entitled to receive the whole of Transylvania and a large part of Hungary on the ground of the principle of nationality, and upon that ground they put forward the claim, when the Treaty comes to be made with Hungary, that Hungary be required to surrender those territories and that Rumania should have the partition of them.

With a view to establishing the claim they are now endeavouring to dispossess the Magyar inhabitants of Transylvania and substitute, especially in towns, as many Rumans as possible, so that if there were any question of taking a census, the Ruman population would be increased. They are trying, in fact, to dispossess certain sections of the Magyars to make way for Rumans. This claim to the whole of Transylvania and a large part of Hungary is unjust and not based on the facts of the case. I believe, although it is impossible to speak with absolute certainty, that the percentage of the Human population in Transylvania does not exceed 55 per cent. At any rate, it is considerably below two-thirds. In Hungary, where they claim twenty-three counties, I believe, it is not more than 43 per cent. of the population. Therefore, their claim there is still less well grounded.

As is known by all your Lordships, the civilisation of the Ruman people and of Rumania is on a distinctly lower level than that of the civilisation of the Magyars in Hungary, and therefore it would be a "come-down" for the population of Hungary to be ruled by those who would come as officials from a less educated and less advanced country such as Rumania. Fortunately, the Rumans in Transylvania are better educated and altogether in a better state than the Ruman peasants who are little better than serfs in Rumania. Of course, we have to look upon the matter as if Rumanian methods and officials were being introduced into Transylvania.

I ought to add that the claim which the Rumanian Government makes to the whole of Transylvania and to the twenty-three counties of Hungary practically means the economic ruin of Hungary. That is a matter to be very seriously considered, because it was due to the extreme, undue harshness of the terms imposed by the Peace Treaty upon Austria that has helped to bring Austria, or what still remains of Austria, to its present condition of famine and destitution. There is no part of Central Europe which has suffered so much from starvation and famine as Upper and Lower Austria, and it is largely due to the severity of the terms imposed upon Austria. This bad example ought not to be repeated unless the Allies wish to have a similar condition of things in Hungary.

It is greatly to be regretted that in these matters the negotiations have been conducted so much in secret. The Paris Conference has been unfortunate in endeavouring to keep secret its proceedings from the peoples of the Allied countries. Had they been known protests would have been heard from the peoples of at least some of the Allied countries, because some of the decisions which have been arrived at by the Paris Conference are likely to have unfortunate results. I hold in my hand a memorial which has been received at Paris from the three Bishops of Transylvania dealing with the present condition of things in that country—from the Roman Catholic Bishop; the Calvinist Bishop, and the Unitarian Bishop; a singular and novel conjunction. Many of your Lordships were not perhaps aware that there was a Calvinistic Bishop, or a Unitarian Bishop in Transylvania. I believe it is the only part of the world where it occurs. Still more remarkable is it that three Bishops belonging to three ecclesiastical bodies so far removed in many respects for one another should have joined in this common representation. It is the first time in the history of the Christian Church that this has occurred, and they have joined because the condition of their people, Roman Catholic and Protestant, has become so serious that they felt it was their duty to bring it before the attention of the world.

This memorial states the grievances which are alleged to have been perpetrated on the Magyar inhabitants of Transylvania, Roman Catholics, Calvinists, and Unitarians. They are perpetrated partly with a political object—an endeavour to Rumanise as far as possible—and partly with an ecclesiastical object—to do as much harm as possible, and lessen the influence as much as possible of the Church of Rome, the Calvinistic Church and the Unitarian Church, in order to substitute the Rumanian Church.

Among the grievances alleged are that the existing civil servants, who are Magyars, have been expelled without compensation; that the government and municipal schools have been seized, and teachers expelled because they refused to take the oath of allegiance to Rumania, which of course they are not compelled to do. Rumanian sovereignty has not been recognised there and it is a perfectly high-handed and arbitrary act on the part of the Rumanian officials. It is also alleged that the government and municipal property has been seized; that the property of charitable foundations, ecclesiastical and educational have also been seized, and that no rights of property have been regarded. Still worse, that certain outrages have been committed, and that priests and women have been flogged.

I have also received other communications, coming from a gentleman who recently visited Transylvania—a clergyman—as to seventy-three crimes, which are enumerated and which have been perpetrated upon Magyars because they refused to take the oath of allegiance to the Rumanian Government, which there was no title to demand, or for some offence alleged to have been given to Rumanian soldiers or officers. I have copies and can hand them to the Government if desired.

Your Lordships will, of course, understand that I am not making myself responsible for the facts. I am merely stating the facts as stated by the Bishops and in these other communications which have reached me; but I do not profess to be in a position to substantiate them, nor do I desire to accuse the Rumanian Government of having been guilty of these acts. I know nothing of what instructions the Rumanians have given. The offences are alleged to have been perpetrated by the Rumanian military authorities, and what instructions they have received from their own superiors in Bucharest of course I do not know. That I desire to make perfectly clear. These are merely statements which have reached me, but I mention them because I desire to ask the Government to comply with the request of the memorial that there should be an Inquiry by the Allied Governments into these facts, and that if the facts should be substantiated then the Allied Governments should take steps to secure that these acts should immediately cease.

I gather that a Treaty has recently been signed with Rumania, and that in that Treaty provision is made for the security of minorities, whether religious or racial, in any territories which Rumania may acquire. If that is so, this inquiry will not be useless, because it will show what the dangers are. If the Rumanian officers and soldiers are guilty of these offences it will show what it is that the Allies must keep their eyes upon in order to make certain that whatever provisions have been introduced for the protection of minorities are strictly and faithfully carried out by the Rumanians. There is here at any rate a prima facie case into which an Inquiry ought to be made. I desire to ask also this: I understand that no Treaty has yet been signed with Hungary, and of course territory will not be taken away except by Treaty.

In order to determine what are the proper boundaries to be drawn between the different nationalities which inhabit Transylvania and the twenty-three Hungarian counties, there ought to be an Inquiry by an impartial Commission. It is not an easy question to determine. In some places the populations are mixed, but it ought to be possible for an impartial Commission to draw a line indicating where the boundaries should run between the territory which is to be assigned to Rumania. I do not dispute that Rumania is entitled to some territory in Transylvania; therefore I would suggest that this is a work which ought to be undertaken at the Paris Conference either before the Treaty is signed or as a part of the Treaty with Hungary, so that when the Commission has made its Report the boundaries shall be those which the Commission shall have reported to be just.

I speak particularly with regard to one part of the Hungarian population. There is a district in Eastern Transylvania, which I visited many years ago, inhabited by a branch of the Hungarian nation who have been established there more than a thousand years. They are a very simple, honest, mountain folk, living all by themselves, and having no Rumanian mixture. To take these people and subject them to the Rumanians, who are alien in religion, language and race, would be a grave injustice. I desire and hope that whenever the boundaries come to be limited the case of these particular Magyars will be carefully provided for, and that they will not be put under the dominion of the Rumanian. I have already observed that the Magyar population has reached a higher level than that of the Rumanian. I should like to add also that it is not for a country like England to treat with indifference the claims and rights of the Hungarian people. There is no part of Europe where England was held in so much honour and affection for many many years as in Hungary. Having travelled in Hungary as far back as the year 1866, I can speak to the friendship and warm feeling that existed then in Hungary and Transylvania towards England. It was largely due to the fact that our people, after the Hungarian war of 1849, gave a very cordial reception to the exiles and assuaged the sufferings that they had undergone.

It may be said, of course, that in recent years Hungary became an ally of Germany. She did so simply out of the natural alarm that she felt at the power of Russia which was always threatening her, and which had been the cause of the destruction of her independence in 1849, when it was a large Russian army that overpowered the patriotic movement of the Hungarians in that year. That being so, Hungary thought herself obliged to turn to Germany for protection against Russia. But apart from that, she has always cultivated the friendship of England, and it would be a very great pity if we were to be a party to any act of impartiality towards a country with which we had once such close ties.

I may add that the Hungarians are a very high-spirited people. I do not believe that if a large population is taken away from Hungary and placed in the Rumanian Government that the Hungarians would tamely acquiesce in it. As in some other places, it is to be feared that the Paris Conference, neglecting those principles from which they started, transgressing the principle of nationality and self-determination, are putting populations under an alien rule—an alien rule to which they are not likely permanently to submit, and that means further discontent, further danger, insurrection and war. That has already been done in the case of the Tyrol; and it has already been done in the Balkan countries, and I very much fear that it may be done here, and if it is done here every one who knows the spirit of the Hungarians will know that sooner or later there will be trouble, and that we may have a recurrence of those quarrels of nationalities out of which the last war sprang. I earnestly, therefore, commend to His Majesty's Government the request which has been made on behalf of the population of Transylvania that the facts may be inquired into, and if protection is needed that it may be given.

LORD STANMORE

My Lords, it is happily possible to state that on December 10 the Rumanian Government, who are making themselves responsible for the Government of Transylvania, signed the Treaty drawn up for the protection of the minorities who are the special subject of the present enquiry. It may be said at once that the signature of that Treaty by Roumania, given at the same time as her signature of the Austrian and Bulgarian Treaties puts a new complexion on the matter. The Rumanian armies have just been in occupation of Hungary where the forces of Bolshevism had so recently been let loose. Fortunately the common sense of the Hungarian people has led them to reduce those Bolshevik forces; to turn their back on the endeavours of reactionaries, who used the Bolshevik peril for their own ends; and, finally, by listening to the counsel of the Special Envoy of the Peace Conference, Sir George Clerk, to form a Government in which every shade of Magyar opinion is represented, with the object of obtaining peace. The Rumanian armies have now been replaced in Hungary by National Forces capable of maintaining order, and an Hungarian Delegation is expected very shortly at Paris for the conclusion of peace.

These Hungarian political considerations are mentioned because they have a direct bearing on the racial issue in Transylvania. Indeed, a large part of the evidence presented to His Majesty's Government in regard to persecution of minorities in Transylvania shows that it is a racial persecution by the soldiers of an occupying army.

There is, of course, another side to this question which recalls the period of the Thirty Years War in Central Europe. It is mainly to this aspect that the Memorial, recently presented to the Supreme Council of the Peace Conference at Paris by the Transylvanian Bishops, refers. For, al- though it makes allegations regarding persecutions by Rumanian military authorities, it is very plain that sectarian influences are also at work in that country, so that the fanatical zeal of men who regard themselves as Orthodox is being vented on Roman Catholics, Calvinists, and Unitarians. It is impossible to doubt that much of the information which has been collected by these venerable gentlemen is correct, and the evidence tends to show that the persecution which has been inflicted is the result of the country being occupied by the armies of the religious and racial majority who had formerly lived under the government of the minority. A great injustice was wiped out when it was decided that Transylvania should be united to Rumania. But where great injustice has been in the past there is bound to be reaction when the situation is reversed. The majority are Rumanian and Orthodox. The minority are Magyar or German, and Calvinist, Roman Catholic or Unitarian.

The Memorial of the Bishops is certainly an indictment of the action of the Rumanian authorities, but it is an ex parte statement which, for the reasons given above, must be accepted with great respect for its authors but with some reserve, as His Majesty's Government have as yet received no evidence on the Rumanian side of the case. Nevertheless, if the Peace Conference had not felt that these conditions might arise at a time when whole provinces were handed over from the Government of one race to that of another, they would not have put into the Treaties the special protection of minorities which is there provided. It is likely that a great part of the evidence which has reached His 'Majesty's Government will be found on examination to be true. It is to the effect that members of the Civil Service in Transylvania who declined to take the Rumanian oath of allegiance before the final decision of the Peace Conference, have been dismissed; that they and their families have been reduced to poverty; that they have even been prevented from earning their living by the persecution of the military authorities who were ready to assist them. There have; apparently, been ejections from houses in Kolozsvar and other places where Hungarians live; there have been expropriations of large estates in the hands of Hungarians, of school or other trust funds and of municipal property and Church property, with far-reaching effects. Requisitions of build- ings have taken place with disregard for the convenience of the occupiers; and, although barracks have been evacuated, sectarian schools and other buildings have been requisitioned for administrative purposes where barracks would have served.

In regard to the graver accusations against the Rumanian authorities, to which the noble Viscount referred, it is, perhaps, undesirable that the Government should take part in the discussion of such a matter until the Rumanian authorities have had opportunity of investigating them. Other allegations made by the Bishops concerned those petty irritations of the populace which are the usual outcome of the military occupation of a district by an alien army. The Supreme Council will no doubt consider what action is required on the Bishops' Memorial. His Majesty's Government have confidence in the decisions of the Supreme Council to whom our late enemies and our present Allies alike turn for the adjustment of these matters in a spirit of justice. A new era must begin for Transylvania with the signature of the Treaty of Peace with Hungary, which will shortly take place. The way has been prepared for that era by the Minorities Treaty. The Rumanian Government, amid great difficulties, have wisely chosen to follow the advice of the Supreme Council in accepting that settlement. It is now for His Majesty's Government to give them a fair chance of putting their house in Transylvania in order so that the spirit of this new era, in which we hope that Rumania and Transylvania may now share, will be quickly felt by the substitution of civil for military authority in the regions affected by the Minorities Treaty.

VISCOUNT BRYCE

I desire to thank my noble friend and His Majesty's Government for the full and carefully-worded answer that they have given to my Question. The only other observation I have to make is that the answer seems to assume that Transylvania should go as a whole to Rumania. What I desire to make clear is that Transylvania consists of three parts, and the Rumanian population is only a majority—not even a majority of two-thirds; therefore there is no reason why Transylvania should be treated as one and assigned to Rumania. It is easy to discriminate those parts of Transylvania which are properly Rumanian from the other parts; and I hope that when the Treaty with Hungary is being finally considered Transylvania will not be treated as a whole but that the parts which are not Rumanian should be left to be Saxon or Magyar as the case may be.

LORD STANMORE

I will make it my business to see that the suggestions of my noble friend are conveyed to the Secretary of State.