THE EARL OF MAYOMy Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government why certain aliens (Germans), a list of whom I have furnished, have not been interned. I am not going to speak about the question of spying, but there are a number of Germans living in this country in freedom and making money out of the Englishmen who are kind enough to allow them to live here and to do practically what they like. I have furnished a list of names of Germans who are carrying on business in London, and these names do not appear in any naturalisation list issued since 1844. I hope I am correct in the names and the trades that these men are carrying on. Tradesmen in London feel that they are being injured in their businesses by the competition of Germans who have in some cases been interned and have been let out again.
§ LORD BERESFORDMy Lords, before my noble friend answers this question I should like to ask again about the firm of Müller. I must be very careful after Lord Curzon's strictures as to presenting a pistol at the head of the Government without any notice having been given. But this 1033 case has been already brought before the House, and the Government know it very well. The Government say that it is not a ease in which they can interfere, their exact words being "It is not expedient to wind up this firm." The man was taken out of the Baltic Exchange, but the Government had him returned to the Baltic to the intense irritation of all the members there.
§ THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD NEWTON)My Lords, so far as I am able to grasp the question asked by my noble friend who has just sat down, it has no sort of connection with that appearing in the name of my noble friend Lord Mayo. As far as I could gather from the noble and gallant Lord's remarks, it is purely a Board of Trade question, and I know nothing about it. If the noble and gallant Lord puts a Question on the Paper, I take it that it will be answered by the representative of the Board of Trade.
With reference to the Question on the Paper, Lord Mayo has furnished me with a list, and he has expressed a somewhat unfounded hope that this list is a correct one. I am sorry to disabuse my noble friend. It is anything but an accurate list. In the first place, it includes a number of names of men who are not German at all; in the second place, it includes the names of a number of men who are represented as being free, but who, as a matter of fact, have been interned for a considerable time. I cannot help thinking that my noble friend is under considerable misapprehension. I rather gathered that he is under the impression that a number of men escape internment, or are released from internment in consequence of petitions and representations brought forward by individuals. I can assure the noble Earl that this is not the case, and that a man is only released from internment by the Home Secretary after his case has been carefully considered by the Advisory Committee. The general rule is this, and so far as I know it is implicitly adhered to—that all Germans are interned unless there is a very excellent reason why they should remain at liberty. And I may say that the precautions are so great at the present moment that I believe any alien enemy who was heard uttering sentiments of a disloyal nature would very soon find himself incarcerated. The noble Earl is under a misapprehension in his belief that there are a vast number of dangerous uninterned Germans in the country at the present moment.
§ LORD NEWTONI wonder if my noble friend has any idea of the number of un-interned hostile aliens. If not, I will tell him. There are, all told, something like 22,000 uninterned hostile aliens at the present moment.
§ LORD NEWTONAnd from the figure I have given you must deduct women, children, and men over 70 years of age, and you must also deduct what are known as friendly aliens—Czechs, Poles, Armenians and such people; and when you have reduced the figure by those categories it really leaves a small number of what my noble friend would consider dangerous uninterned aliens. I should like to assure my noble friend once again that all these cases are carefully investigated; and I venture to think it is a more commonsense and practical proceeding to consider every case on its merits than to intern a man simply because he happens to be technically a hostile alien. I may be thought eccentric, but I confess to holding the view that an alien, even if he be technically a hostile alien, provided there is no suspicion whatever against him, is better employed in making boots or clothes or baking bread than being kept doing nothing in an internment camp at the expense of the taxpayers of this country.