§ *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE rose to ask His Majesty's Government when the "proposal for reconstituting the Second Chamber" will, in accordance with the intimation made in His Majesty's Speech from the Throne at the beginning of the session, be laid before Parliament; whether the measure has yet been drafted; and whether it will be introduced in this or in the other House of Parliament.
935 The noble Marquess said: My Lords, I make no apology for putting this Question to the noble Marquess who leads the House, who, I am sure, will not regard it either as indiscreet or unreasonable. For a long time past, even before the introduction of the Parliament Bill, it was admitted by His Majesty's Ministers that the question of the powers of your Lordships' House was closely connected with the question of its constitution. That was announced by the Prime Minister in the year 1910. I need not remind your Lordships of the contents of the Preamble of the Parliament Act, nor of the solemn recital which it contained of the intention of His Majesty's Government to substitute for the existing House of Lords a Second Chamber constituted on a popular basis. The pledge was re-affirmed by the Prime Minister on the Third Reading, with the additional intimation that His Majesty's Government intended to undertake the task during the lifetime of the present Parliament. There are other pledges which I will not recapitulate. We all of us recollect the references to the "debt of honour" and the reference made by the noble and learned Earl, Lord Loreburn, to the "twin Bills," one of which we have not yet had the privilege of seeing. Those citations are rather hackneyed, but they have not lost anything of their force. We have pressed in and out of season for the production of those proposals, and we have pointed to the utter unreasonableness of pressing upon Parliament measures dealing with great constitutional questions, as well as others, at a time when, by the admission of His Majesty's Government, the Constitution was in suspense. But, my Lords, our inquiries have been put by from time to time without any apology for what has always seemed to me a very grievous breach of faith. At last the other day we found in the gracious Speech of His Majesty an announcement that something was likely to be done. It may have been that Ministers realised that the lifetime of the present Parliament was drawing to a close—they have, in fact, themselves admitted this—and they may have felt that they could not in common decency postpone any further the fulfilment of their engagements. I am, therefore, prompted to ask the Question which stands in my name.
What I desire to know is whether the proposal referred to in the Speech from 936 the Throne has now taken the shape of a Bill, when the Bill is likely to come before Parliament, and in which House of Parliament it is likely to be introduced. May I with all deference suggest that as the House of Commons is very fully occupied, and as this House has considerably more leisure and has paid great attention to the subject, the Bill might be introduced here? The noble Marquess will not have forgotten the labours of Lord Rosebery's Committee in the year 1908; the famous Resolutions which resulted from that Committee; and he may perhaps recollect that some of us had the courage to produce in this House a Bill dealing with the constitution of the Second Chamber. It may not entirely have met with the approval of noble Lords opposite, but it showed at any rate that we were ready to address ourselves seriously and with an open mind, to this grave problem. I ask the Question that I have put down, and I trust that we shall hear from the noble Marquess that there is a Bill in existence, that it will very soon see the light, and that it will be laid upon the Table of your Lordships' House.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWEMy Lords, I certainly have no complaint to make of the noble Marquess's Question as being either indiscreet or inopportune, and I will endeavour to do my best to give answers to the three heads in which his Question is framed, although they cannot be in all cases a complete answer. The noble Marquess first asks when a proposal for reconstituting the Second Chamber will be laid before Parliament. Well, he will not be surprised, particularly in existing circumstances, if I cannot give him a precise date; but I can assure him that the dealing with this subject will not be unduly postponed; and he can take it from me that it is certain, humanly speaking, that it will come before us during the present session of Parliament. The noble Marquess then asks whether the measure has yet been drafted. Again I am sure he will not expect me to indicate to the House the precise degree of preparation which the measure has reached; but I can assure him that the subject has been under our close and careful consideration during the last two years.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYTwo years?
THE MARQUESS OF CREWEYes. And that, therefore, its preparation may fairly be taken by noble Lords opposite as being tolerably well advanced. Then the noble Marquess asks whether it will be introduced in this or in the other House of Parliament. The noble Marquess will not take me as making any engagement on this subject when I say it is very probable, as it appears to me, that it will not be introduced in either House of Parliament as a measure. It is exceedingly likely that we shall proceed in the first instance by Resolution—a method for which there are a number of precedents, as the noble Marquess well knows, some of old date and some of quite recent date. One advantage, at any rate, which attaches to that method of procedure is this, that it enables discussion on this subject, which, after all, affects both Houses, to be carried on pari passu in both, or at any rate within a very short interval; whereas if you proceed by Bill there may be an interval of considerable length before one House can consider the conclusions arrived at by the other. But I must repeat that I hope this will not be regarded as a positive engagement on my part. I am merely endeavouring, in my anxiety to give as much information to noble Lords as I can, to indicate what I think will very probably be our method of proceeding.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, no one can accuse the noble Marquess opposite of being over rash in the statement which he has made to your Lordships. We understand that it is very hypothetical as to when and where we shall see these wonderful proposals which have taken two years but which have not reached the form of a Bill. I know that the drafting of a Bill is difficult, but the sort of naked proposals which form the subject-matter of a Bill certainly would 938 not under most Governments have taken two years to put together. But the noble Marquess and his friends always proceed in public matters with great deliberation. They never exaggerate, we always observe; and we have an instance this evening. The noble Marquess will not tell us when the proposals will be produced and in what House; but he said he hoped they would be produced in both Houses at one time. But I gathered one thing which I think was almost an assurance—namely, that we should see them some time this session. Considering the circumstances of Parliament that is almost an incautious remark. The noble Marquess relies on the continuance of the Government in office. Therefore he is able to assure us that within a brief period we shall see these proposals. I certainly hope your Lordships' House will have an opportunity of discussing them; but I think it would have been far better if the noble Marquess had told us that while the other House is discussing these fundamental questions of destroying the Constitution we should be engaged here at the same time in trying to mend it. We are obliged to the noble Marquess even for the cautious method with which he has approached the subject.